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RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - ItsGoTime - 04-23-2023
Trading Bertans instead of THJ gets the salary reduction bigger, but I’d expect they’d want more compensation than that (honestly with THJ I’d expect that too). If Green is truly a $30-35M player, that deal doesn’t compensate for him whatsoever. The salary is right, I just think our unprotected 27 will have to be the compensation. I’m on the fence about that. Green could absolutely be one of the pieces to the championship puzzle, especially with Kidd continuing to be the coach (the more coaches on the floor, the better). He just seems to be aging so poorly (add to that all the signs pointing to Kyrie aging poorly too). I think I’m more out than in.
Edit: NVM, can’t do Bertans instead of THJ in your trade structure.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - ballsrchr - 04-23-2023
If someone from the Mavs scouting/management department is not cruising this, and probably other, forums...then they are missing out on a lot of information and "possibilities".
This is not sarcasm!
Those with responsibility to an organization--or team--who fails to use any and all tools at hand are doomed to failure or mediocrity.
Of course one also needs the ability to wade through...chaff...and recognize pertinent and applicable ideas and information.
I can definitively say that I'm not one of those people...
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - omahen - 04-23-2023
(04-23-2023, 08:50 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I'm not smart enough to figure out what draft compensation (if any) would be outgoing on someone who could threaten to walk if they don't get their way. But, Draymond certainly fits the mold of what is needed here. 99th percentile defender who can swing between PF and C. 80th percentile defensive rebounder and 90th percentile in assists (on a team that really needs a third ball handler). Josh and Hardy both shot 3's better than THJ this season (and 3's are supposed to be his strength). So Hardaway's minutes are easily replaced. The question is what draft compensation goes along with the outgoing players. This conversation goes back to the Dameris and Followell podcast. If you listen to them, I don't think they could have been more clear that trading for someone with a PO is what the Mav's should do. Other than Middleton, Green is the only player who fits what they were describing. BTW, if this is done without involving the 2017 pick, I think a Bertans + 2027 for Turner is still on the table even if we already have Draymond. We still need a center as Draymond, Maxi and Powell aren't enough.
I think biggest motivation for GSW would be to get zero (or minimal) salary back, which means a third team. They have Kuminga, who can take Greens minutes. So they either just let him walk for nothing or help him get to a team of his choosing, but without salary going back. I don't think any of Mavs players have close enough value to offset the huge tax GSW would pay for them. It makes more sense for them to get a big TE and then use it for a better player if they want. They have nice trade assets, both in draft capital and young players, so they could easily do something that has far more value then the likes of THJ or Bullock.
The price of dumping Bertans and McGee to a team with cap space (San Antonio and perhaps Indy are prime candidates) is imho a lottery protected first. So my ideal deal would still be:
Ind: Bertans, THJ, McGee, #10, 2027
Dal: Turner, Green,#29 from Indy
GSW: #26 from Indy
Or alternatively, if Turner is not available:
Ind or SA: Bertans, McGee, #19 from GSW
Dal: Green
GSW: #10 from Dallas
Charlotter is another option:
Cha: Bertans, McGee, #10
Dal: Green, one of young Charlotte centers (Kai Jones?) as a back up center for Dallas
GSW: #27 from Charlotte
If GSW is still willing to finance 200+ mil of salary, then the calculation gets different. Then I guess their compensation demand would be bigger.
On the other hand, the Kyrie example doesn't really support my valuation. It was pretty much obvious he would not stay in BKN, was a half a year rental, yet Dallas paid two solid players and unprotected FRP for him.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - DanSchwartzgan - 04-23-2023
(04-23-2023, 10:14 AM)omahen Wrote: I think biggest motivation for GSW would be to get zero (or minimal) salary back, which means a third team. They have Kuminga, who can take Greens minutes. So they either just let him walk for nothing or help him get to a team of his choosing, but without salary going back. I don't think any of Mavs players have close enough value to offset the huge tax GSW would pay for them. It makes more sense for them to get a big TE and then use it for a better player if they want. They have nice trade assets, both in draft capital and young players, so they could easily do something that has far more value then the likes of THJ or Bullock.
The price of dumping Bertans and McGee to a team with cap space (San Antonio and perhaps Indy are prime candidates) is imho a lottery protected first. So my ideal deal would still be:
Ind: Bertans, THJ, McGee, #10, 2027
Dal: Turner, Green,#29 from Indy
GSW: #26 from Indy
Or alternatively, if Turner is not available:
Ind or SA: Bertans, McGee, #19 from GSW
Dal: Green
GSW: #10 from Dallas
Charlotter is another option:
Cha: Bertans, McGee, #10
Dal: Green, one of young Charlotte centers (Kai Jones?) as a back up center for Dallas
GSW: #27 from Charlotte
If GSW is still willing to finance 200+ mil of salary, then the calculation gets different. Then I guess their compensation demand would be bigger.
On the other hand, the Kyrie example doesn't really support my valuation. It was pretty much obvious he would not stay in BKN, was a half a year rental, yet Dallas paid two solid players and unprotected FRP for him.
Interesting conversation. FG and I are trying to do the Green deal deal in 22/23. I think you may have some timing mismatches on some of your proposals. For instance, your first Indy deal misses being legal by a bunch if done in 22/23 because you are still working off of Turner's larger salary. The salary works using 23/24 numbers, but I think that raises different timing issues.
The SA idea works in 22/23 because right now SA is the only team with cap room. #19 to take Bertans and McGee seems pretty close to fair value. Normally you think in terms of a late first being worth about $20mm in expiring salary. Bertans is owed a total of $21mm. So, moving up to 19 instead of something in the late 20's and taking on two years of McGee doesn't seem outrageous at all.
I'll quibble on the GS highest priority thing. I think their highest priority is to maximize the remaining Curry/Thompson window. Yeah, maybe they can give up assets and use a TPE to get someone better than McGee or THJ. But, they don't have a center under contract next season outside of Looney and might lose DiVincenzo with no way to replace him other than minimum contracts. I could see a world in which they actually value those two players and use draft assets to bring in even more players. The tax penalties in the new CBA didn't get worse (in fact the spreading of the tax thresholds might save GS a dollar or two). It is the ability for a Super Tax team to stay competitive that is the biggest new wrinkle. So, I don't completely buy the 'have to find a third team' logic if the players they are receiving have any ability to contribute there.
Of course, nothing says you can't do a deal involving someone going to GS AND someone going to SA. Let's say Reggie to GS and Bertans to SA. Maybe the picks you outline (10 to GS, 19 to SA) changes to include 32 coming to Dallas if SA isn't taking as much salary in such a deal. I realize some expect us to draft a future star with #10, but getting 32 would save $4mm in salary (and a ton of tax) compared to #10. Given our historical philosophy about the value of the draft, I don't think it would bother Dallas at all to give up #10 for #32 and turn the money that would have gone to Reggie/Bertans into Green. I don't think SA would balk at swapping #19 for #32 for taking on a year of Bertans. If Green is going to leave and/or GS doesn't want to pay him for multiple more years, turning the guy you don't want into a year of Reggie and a move up from 19 to 10 isn't bad either. Maybe that's the outline we should be looking at.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - omahen - 04-23-2023
(04-23-2023, 02:14 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: FG and I are trying to do the Green deal deal in 22/23.
Yeah, me too, but I forgot that those cap space teams will actually have cap space in July. Could we still do a deal on draft night while making it official in July?
(04-23-2023, 02:14 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I'll quibble on the GS highest priority thing. I think their highest priority is to maximize the remaining Curry/Thompson window.
Totally agree with what is GSW highest priority. But I could see a world where they see Kuminga getting most of Greens minutes. Moody could step up for DiVinzenzo and they have another pick in the draft for another guard or center. They could also do further moves like moving Poole for a couple of players (GSW has plenty of assets left to include in a deal).
That split salary GSW/SA proposal looks great.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - SleepingHero - 04-24-2023
Only worry I have in any Draymond scenario is Portland getting desperate and driving up the price.
There have been long standing rumors of their interest in Draymond, and Dame is getting impatient. Of course the logical course is to trade Dame for POR, I'm just not so sure they're going to.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - HoosierDaddyKid - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 07:28 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Only worry I have in any Draymond scenario is Portland getting desperate and driving up the price.
There have been long standing rumors of their interest in Draymond, and Dame is getting impatient. Of course the logical course is to trade Dame for POR, I'm just not so sure they're going to.
Draymond isn't going to turn Portland into ready-made contenders. They're kinda in the same boat as Dallas except Dallas has two all-NBA players compared to Portland having just one. They'll need a lot more than Day-Day.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - Chicagojk - 04-24-2023
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/2023/04/24/hiring-gm-help-in-dennis-lindsey-can-right-some-wrongs-for-mavericks-mark-cuban/
behind a pay wall, but interesting
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - omahen - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 10:01 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: behind a pay wall
Their pay wall is slow. Click on the page and you have a couple of seconds for a ctrl+A and ctrl+c "move".
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 10:30 AM)omahen Wrote: Their pay wall is slow. Click on the page and you have a couple of seconds for a ctrl+A and ctrl+c "move".
archive.is is the easiest way to get around like 90% of paywalls including sites like the athletic.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - Knutsen - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 10:58 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: archive.is is the easiest way to get around like 90% of paywalls including sites like the athletic.
Another convenient option for articles from dallasnews.com is using the reader mode on an iPhone - shows the whole content with one click.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - KillerLeft - 04-24-2023
(04-19-2023, 09:17 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I enjoy listening to Cato’s podcast and Locked on Mavericks podcast. Tonight I listed to take dat wit you which is Followell and Dameris podcast. I thought it was excellent about the Mavs heading into the off-season. Really stresses how much of a delicate balance they have and mistakes can’t be made. It is going to be real tricky trying to land this thing.
Dameris is in favor of trading the pick while Followell is more interested keeping it.
Followil is awesome, and does a good job of balancing reality against his employment, imho.
Dameris is smart and all, but just comes across to me like a Cuban mouthpiece, in all honestly. I stopped listening to that one. Maybe I'll check out this episode on your recommendation.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - RoyTarpleysGhost - 04-24-2023
Did we officially hire this Dennismguy or what?
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - IamDougieFresh - 04-24-2023
We need a mavsboard.com podcast with our most unhinged posters as hosts and everyone here is allowed to call in.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - ItsGoTime - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 03:05 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: We need a mavsboard.com podcast with our most unhinged posters as hosts and everyone here is allowed to call in.I literally tried to do this with Dan and Mavsluvr.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - KillerLeft - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 03:11 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I literally tried to do this with Dan and Mavsluvr.
I guess those two are a bit too "hinged" lol.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - Chicagojk - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 10:30 AM)omahen Wrote: Their pay wall is slow. Click on the page and you have a couple of seconds for a ctrl+A and ctrl+c "move".
One of the things that caught my eye was Nico was looking to hire someone for this role last year. Again, why are we such slow moving on everything? Or was it that Cuban thought he has everything figured out and not more help was needed? Also had some rough comments on Finley.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - RoyTarpleysGhost - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 03:05 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: We need a mavsboard.com podcast with our most unhinged posters as hosts and everyone here is allowed to call in.
paging @kammrath
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - DanSchwartzgan - 04-24-2023
(04-23-2023, 05:54 PM)omahen Wrote: Yeah, me too, but I forgot that those cap space teams will actually have cap space in July. Could we still do a deal on draft night while making it official in July?
That split salary GSW/SA proposal looks great.
Thanks. I like it too, which means it stands no chance. I imagine the draft compensation for Green is more than just a trade down up to #10. But, I think trading for FA's and guys who can decline their option and leave is one of the hardest things to value.
I imagine there is a way to agree in June and trade in July, but it takes a lot of moving pieces to all fall just right. My leaning is it isn't very likely.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs in discussions to hire Dennis Lindsay as Ass. GM - DanSchwartzgan - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 03:28 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I guess those two are a bit too "hinged" lol.
Who are you calling hinged gosh darn it. You mean the person who took his/her marbles and left (so that 7 people could read their stuff on another board) and the person who just took a month long sabbatical.