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+--- Thread: MAVS NEWS: Luka Wins Community Cares Award! | DLive's Mom Passes Away| Maxi OUT (/showthread.php?tid=2172)
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RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - Jym - 12-15-2022
(12-14-2022, 11:48 PM)cow Wrote: I just don't know if you can put enough defense around a Luka/Wood combo and certainly not if you are also going to play THJ/Din heavy minutes.
Yeah I would like Luka/Green/Bullock/DFS/Wood to get some major run as a starting five for a 10 to 20 game stretch
Maybe it sucks but I feel like that has the most potential for success
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - HoosierDaddyKid - 12-15-2022
https://twitter.com/ScoopB/status/1603181575348199424?s=20&t=n05x5n5AyMuTjCTwB-OgkQ
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - omahen - 12-15-2022
I think the bigger problem is Mavs failing at vast majority of the moves they did after they traded for Luka. Majority of rotation players are still from Luka rookie season.
- reportedly could have taken 20 mil contract instead of giving up a pick for Luka. They valued cap space more to spend it on DAJ
- KP trade
- Mavs sending Barnes away for free (his worth was measured in at least one FRP) a season later - didn't capitalize on TE generated by him and failed the max cap space 2019 offseason where Wright was their prized aquisition (could have used the cap space for assets, if Kemba walked on them). It cost 2 SRP to get Wright and 2 SRP to send him away (too lazy to check exact numbers, but this is how I remember it)
- Powell extension (ok player, but way overpaid)
- mostly failing in 2020 draft with 2 high SRP
- trading Curry for Richardson (not that Curry would fit on this team, but unfortunately JRich didn't neither)
- didn't capitalize the Richardson TE because money
- didn't capitalize near max cap space in 2021, opted to resign THJ to what is now a negative contract
- WCS contract
- Sterling Brown
- Trey Burke
- KP trade to Washington - best player in the trade was KP (and owed less money) and Mavs paid a pick to do it. Still waiting for impact of the increased flexibility two smaller contracts allegedly bring
- Brunson disaster
- McGee
List of good deals is much shorter:
- Bullock (sort of, at least last season)
- DFS and Maxi extensions
- Green and Hardy picks look to have potential. Much better players were drafted after Green, though.
In my opinion, sure getting to WCF last season was nice, but it was fools gold. This core is far from contending, especially since they lost Brunson. Mavs biggest problem is in the strategy. They continously have extremely short term look, spending assets on fringe improvements while they should likely be gathering them for the big move, at least in first couple of seasons with Luka. In one of the crucial offseasons after GM and coach left, Cuban chose to go with a nobody GM instead of at least trying to go after the best. They can still salvage this, but their next move has to be an absolute hit. Have no doubt, every move they try to make will be costly. League knows very well Mavs are desperate. Similar to Lakers - everyone knows they have to do something and everyone will extort them to the maximum.
Mike Piellucci on Twitter: "Nobody wants to hear this in a game like this, but @DaveDuFourNBA hit the nail on the head from our show on Monday (with something I’ve said before, too): a lot of the talent problems start with Luka being so good that they couldn’t tank their way into a supporting cast." / Twitter
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - omahen - 12-15-2022
I am repeating this sad song because Mavs again seem to be on a look for players that will likely cost assets but will not be the difference makers needed to move Mavs to a contender status. Bogdanovic, Collins, Bey, Noel,...
I think the strategy that would make sense at this point would be to get assets. Sell to contenders for picks or young talent. Perhaps take worse contract for assets.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - Mavs2021 - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 07:50 AM)omahen Wrote: I am repeating this sad song because Mavs again seem to be on a look for players that will likely cost assets but will not be the difference makers needed to move Mavs to a contender status. Bogdanovic, Collins, Bey, Noel,...
I think the strategy that would make sense at this point would be to get assets. Sell to contenders for picks or young talent. Perhaps take worse contract for assets.
Wait till you find out that Cuban won´t trade Luka for seven first round picks and five prospects at the 2024/2025 trade deadline, but will rather run down his contract until 2026 and then lose him for nothing.
You are stuck with us for another 3 1/2 years.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - vfromlmf - 12-15-2022
It was about three games into Luka's rookie year when I decided he needed to immediately be surrounded by veterans who know how to play. He was that good and it was obvious.
Five years later he's surrounded by a bunch of veterans who know how to play and it's not working. There are chemistry issues and defensive breakdowns. I predicted earlier that the Detroit loss and the media frenzy that followed the team into New York would be the low point -- and I was sort of right for about two weeks. The team looked more engaged in the games that followed but they're 4-4 over the last 8 and back at the low point.
Last night's loss felt different. Luka played all the meaningful second half minutes and it was a disaster.
DFS has average 26 MPG over the last six and 23 over the last three.
The backup stretch four is the team's best defender (Kleber).
The fourth guard (Green) or the third string PG (Ntilikina) might be the second best defender.
The second best scorer (Wood) is such a defensive liability that when CLE felt threatened in the fourth they just directed a few actions his way and shredded the Mavs by 20.
Carlisle left on his own and so did last season's second best player (Brunson). The Pacers are playing a bunch of young players and have a better record than Dallas.
I'm an optimist but it feels like the wheels are falling off this thing.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - bodhisattva - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 07:50 AM)omahen Wrote: I am repeating this sad song because Mavs again seem to be on a look for players that will likely cost assets but will not be the difference makers needed to move Mavs to a contender status. Bogdanovic, Collins, Bey, Noel,...
I think the strategy that would make sense at this point would be to get assets. Sell to contenders for picks or young talent. Perhaps take worse contract for assets.
Signed on last two posts.
Not capitalizing, not gathering assets, not moving fast enough.
They are either cheap and playing Moneyball
Or just stupid.
Dont get me wrong, they are still a solid Nba team, they will probably make the playoffs, but compared to how, Suns, Clippers, Nuggets, Grizzlies are moving in the market in the last 4 years its not good enough.
It depends how high your ambitions are. I assumed that by Luka turning into a superstar, you would aim to build the best possible team. Instead the Mavs FO is giving me these vibes of working on a limited budged and being happy just being good enough.
Compared to our competition, we have less depth, making less changes, making less signings. At least that is the filling I get. Signing a lot of mediocre roll players and hoping one of them would make progress I guess?
That is what it looks to me. Perfect example this summer. Signing Campazzo and Dorsey instead of Dragič. Yes, dude is 36, but for 1 season he was fully able to plug the Brunson hole, rather than 2 dudes who are just unplayable. Just beggars belief.
So in my theory I am getting to the point that I came to except that Mavs FO is led by fraternity dudes, who are happy just to stick around, not go for a few while they have a chance. I mean Cuban did the same with Dirk. We should believe the dude, if he shows you who he is.
I expected better in the last 4 years, thats all. Its just basketball, but it makes me a little mad.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - DanSchwartzgan - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 09:32 AM)bodhisattva Wrote: They are either cheap and playing Moneyball
Or just stupid.
Dont get me wrong, they are still a solid Nba team, they will probably make the playoffs, but compared to how, Suns, Clippers, Nuggets, Grizzlies are moving in the market in the last 4 years its not good enough.
It depends how high your ambitions are. I assumed that by Luka turning into a superstar, you would aim to build the best possible team. Instead the Mavs FO is giving me these vibes of working on a limited budged and being happy just being good enough.
Compared to our competition, we have less depth, making less changes, making less signings. At least that is the filling I get. Signing a lot of mediocre roll players and hoping one of them would make progress I guess?
Cato made a comment related to this on his 77 Minutes podcast. He said the team had the mentality that they were a WC finalist. If that is your mindset, you do things a certain way to try to tweak your way a little further up the ladder. It is obvious, for whatever reason, that they aren't that. If you are an ~.500 team fighting for a play-in spot, you take a very different approach.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - dirkfansince1998 - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 10:00 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Cato made a comment related to this on his 77 Minutes podcast. He said the team had the mentality that they were a WC finalist. If that is your mindset, you do things a certain way to try to tweak your way a little further up the ladder. It is obvious, for whatever reason, that they aren't that. If you are an ~.500 team fighting for a play-in spot, you take a very different approach.
I guess this time they have a WCF to back up that approach even though I think they overperformed but can we honestly say that they ever had a different mentality when it comes to roster building?
Goes along with the tanking topic. They have missed the opportunity to build the necessary asset foundation that usually goes along with the rebuilding process. Did they enter a single season in the MC era with an approach that focused on assets and longterm building? Ever sold win now pieces or vets? Don´t think so. It was always about the best possible one year solution. More often than not in the form of veteran stopgap solutions.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - KillerLeft - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 09:20 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: Carlisle left on his own and so did last season's second best player (Brunson). The Pacers are playing a bunch of young players and have a better record than Dallas.
I'm an optimist but it feels like the wheels are falling off this thing.
Man, this is sadly making a lot of sense to me.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - vfromlmf - 12-15-2022
Where do we go from here?
Clearly Dallas has a problem with roster construction because Luka is a big PG who can't defend his position.
Shocker: starting Luka-Din-THJ-DFS is a disaster waiting to happen unless you have Gobert protecting the rim. DFS can't defend the primary point of attack for 40 minutes and you can't start Bullock in Dorian's place if you want to have any hope on the glass. Either Din or THJ needs to go to the bench or be traded.
Taking stock, you have four defensive specialists who are good but not great shooters. Green and Bullock can guard point of attack. DFS and Kleber can guard wings, forwards and some bigs.
I'm ready to start Green at SG when he's healthy and hope he stays out of foul trouble. Bullock, DFS and Kleber are on the block but only part of a package that returns a clear upgrade.
THJ, Dinwiddie, Powell, Wood are on the block for any package that returns a two-way player that can create his own shot. I'm afraid the proposed Bullock+Wood for John Collins deal won't be enough. You're dealing one of your only point of attack defenders and your second best scorer for a guy who can defend a little but will need Luka to generate his offense. The gettable names might not be sexy. Kyle Lowery. Tobias Harris. Best case might be Van Vleet and will cost you future assets.
Other assets?
- McGee might have value to a contender in the East as long as they have big strong defensive guard who can fight over screens and let McGee defend the rim in drop coverage.
- Hardy probably has 1st round pick value.
- Bertans might have value to a team that needs shooting but the contract is obviously negative value. He'd probably look great in Indiana.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - Chicagojk - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 11:48 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: Where do we go from here?
Clearly Dallas has a problem with roster construction because Luka is a big PG who can't defend his position.
Shocker: starting Luka-Din-THJ-DFS is a disaster waiting to happen unless you have Gobert protecting the rim. DFS can't defend the primary point of attack for 40 minutes and you can't start Bullock in Dorian's place if you want to have any hope on the glass. Either Din or THJ needs to go to the bench or be traded.
Taking stock, you have four defensive specialists who are good but not great shooters. Green and Bullock can guard point of attack. DFS and Kleber can guard wings, forwards and some bigs.
I'm ready to start Green at SG when he's healthy and hope he stays out of foul trouble. Bullock, DFS and Kleber are on the block but only part of a package that returns a clear upgrade.
THJ, Dinwiddie, Powell, Wood are on the block for any package that returns a two-way player that can create his own shot. I'm afraid the proposed Bullock+Wood for John Collins deal won't be enough. You're dealing one of your only point of attack defenders and your second best scorer for a guy who can defend a little but will need Luka to generate his offense. The gettable names might not be sexy. Kyle Lowery. Tobias Harris. Best case might be Van Vleet and will cost you future assets.
Other assets?
- McGee might have value to a contender in the East as long as they have big strong defensive guard who can fight over screens and let McGee defend the rim in drop coverage.
- Hardy probably has 1st round pick value.
- Bertans might have value to a team that needs shooting but the contract is obviously negative value. He'd probably look great in Indiana.
Lowry is interesting. He is old and I hate trading with Miami though. You are ripe to get taken to the showers with them. It is tough to find a match. Hardaway and Wood work...but does that make Dallas better? I doubt Miami would have any interest in Bertans.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - F Gump - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 10:00 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Cato made a comment related to this on his 77 Minutes podcast. He said the team had the mentality that they were a WC finalist. If that is your mindset, you do things a certain way to try to tweak your way a little further up the ladder. It is obvious, for whatever reason, that they aren't that. If you are an ~.500 team fighting for a play-in spot, you take a very different approach.
"He said the team had the mentality that they were a WC finalist.".... They were, with Brunson. He was the 2nd star. Without him, it's a completely different equation in every way that counts, always searching for a missing piece. (It's in NY.)
Brunson was able to change the way Luka played, for the better. Without JB, it's all Luka, all the time, and while that creates great numbers for Luka, it's not a winning formula.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - HoosierDaddyKid - 12-15-2022
(12-14-2022, 09:17 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Interesting that they have John Collins at #95.
Again, I haven't read but I just saw Boston has 8 in the top 100.
I guess that's explains why they're arguably the best team in the league.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - F Gump - 12-15-2022
One problem with all the trade solutions and potential targets -- I don't trust Cuban's FO to make a deal that improves the team's direction. Will the player they target be a plus, or a minus? Will the price paid be worth it? Will they end up handcuffing their ability to do things in the future?
Cuban needs an expert in evaluation, negotiation, and roster building. He refuses to hire him, because he sees himself as the expert. So year after year is a churn of mediocre players and time wasted. That's the bottom line.
Cuban's ability (or willingness) to improve the team ended when the 2011 CBA began and Cuban lectured the NBA world on how he had it all figured out and was so far ahead of the class. However the reality was that he was clueless on how to navigate the new paradigm. Previously roster mistakes could be erased by "outspend the competition" -- the only FO skill Cuban had ever developed -- and once that was gone in 2011, the roster-building under the skill-less Cuban has been sucky. They can find a good player or two, but don't know how to assemble an elite roster before they run out of room to spend, and you can't go far enough if you are so thin on elite talent.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - cow - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 12:23 PM)F Gump Wrote: One problem with all the trade solutions and potential targets -- I don't trust Cuban's FO to make a deal that improves the team's direction. Will the player they target be a plus, or a minus? Will the price paid be worth it? Will they end up handcuffing their ability to do things in the future?
We handed over a team with a generational talent and a mess of a roster otherwise to a GM with zero experience and a coach with a spotty at best coaching resume. What could go wrong?
The only hope I have is that once Luka is traded, Cuban gets bored and sells the team.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - Chicagojk - 12-15-2022
https://twitter.com/thesteinline/status/1603438368716619776?s=46&t=-PisaNuGncviZ0N58t4RfQ
(12-15-2022, 12:31 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: https://twitter.com/thesteinline/status/1603438368716619776?s=46&t=-PisaNuGncviZ0N58t4RfQ
tear of a hamstring during practice. That needs to be a long rehab, I believe.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - mvossman - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 11:48 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: Where do we go from here?
Clearly Dallas has a problem with roster construction because Luka is a big PG who can't defend his position.
Shocker: starting Luka-Din-THJ-DFS is a disaster waiting to happen unless you have Gobert protecting the rim. DFS can't defend the primary point of attack for 40 minutes and you can't start Bullock in Dorian's place if you want to have any hope on the glass. Either Din or THJ needs to go to the bench or be traded.
Taking stock, you have four defensive specialists who are good but not great shooters. Green and Bullock can guard point of attack. DFS and Kleber can guard wings, forwards and some bigs.
I'm ready to start Green at SG when he's healthy and hope he stays out of foul trouble. Bullock, DFS and Kleber are on the block but only part of a package that returns a clear upgrade.
THJ, Dinwiddie, Powell, Wood are on the block for any package that returns a two-way player that can create his own shot. I'm afraid the proposed Bullock+Wood for John Collins deal won't be enough. You're dealing one of your only point of attack defenders and your second best scorer for a guy who can defend a little but will need Luka to generate his offense. The gettable names might not be sexy. Kyle Lowery. Tobias Harris. Best case might be Van Vleet and will cost you future assets.
Other assets?
- McGee might have value to a contender in the East as long as they have big strong defensive guard who can fight over screens and let McGee defend the rim in drop coverage.
- Hardy probably has 1st round pick value.
- Bertans might have value to a team that needs shooting but the contract is obviously negative value. He'd probably look great in Indiana.
Its hard to see much they can do from an asset standpoint this season. They have way too much dead money to generate any kind of cap space without spending significant assets. I really hope they don't do anything with Green or Hardy as they need more youth not less. A Wood/Bullock trade for Collins might hurt in the short term from an offensive creation and point of attack defender standpoint, but that is the kind of move you make if he is a better fit long term and you plan to fill those vacancies next offseason when you have more assets. I'm skeptical that will be enough to get him.
As for the current team, there is no question they need to move Din out of the starting lineup. Green makes the most sense as a point of attack defender and probably our best secondary playmaker after Din. The only concern is if he is ready for that step yet.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - cow - 12-15-2022
Damn. Get better, Maxi.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 7th O | 20th D | 11th Net | 8th in West | - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 12-15-2022
Yes it’s all turning terribly sour much faster than I expected. Not to sound overly obvious, but I wonder if losing Brunson in the manner we did has been much more meaningful to Luka all along than are privy and the frustrations bubbling behind the scenes since the summer are now coming to surface in periodic eruptions. It would explain a lot.