(07-04-2022, 11:02 AM)cow Wrote: Gobert just set the market with 5 first round picks.  You can argue the merits of Gobert versus Simmons, both all world defenders with major deficiencies on offense but Simmons is more valuable on that end because of ball handling and play making.  Simmons has more severe headcase issues and possible medical issues but compensation is going to be in the same neighborhood.  Simmons is much younger.  Both contracts are of the same length but Gobert has an additional year on a PO.  Utah was obviously going to trade Gobert.  I don't see the Nets as having desire to trade Simmons.  If Kyrie and KD go, they can make him the focal point which is something he wants.  He'll also keep them in contention as they have no desire to tank.  Let's be overly generous and say he only costs you 3 first round picks and players that are either useful on the court or as future trade assets.  Dallas can't even put together that package.  And while I think Gobert was an overpay, Dallas also has a bad habit of overpaying in trades.

And even if you could scrape together a desirable package, you are leveraging your future again a la the KP trade while still not having paid for the KP trade.

(07-04-2022, 12:56 PM)Smitty Wrote: I don’t disagree with your perceived value of Simmons. I personally think it would take at least a pick or two with a THJ+Powell package for Simmons and maybe no pick for Irving. I view Simmons value, with no picks included, closer to Wood+DFS. My point is, that if the cost is minimal, like some think here - (THJ+Powell+Green) - then all of us should be ecstatic with a deal like that. The Mavs have never added a star and to say we wouldn’t or shouldn’t at that cost, is being unreasonable.

(07-04-2022, 01:16 PM)cow Wrote: They have no incentive to trade him now. 

(07-04-2022, 01:19 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: The fact that Ben Simmons' shooting issues are mental is WORSE than it being physical or a matter of fixing his form because that's probably harder to get over.

Simmons has made five threes in his entire career. Kidd's lack of shooting was overblown. He wasn't a terrible shooter early in his career, he was just inconsistent. His shooting averages were not too different from a lot of guards in his era. Simmons has attempted 34 threes in four years in the league. Kidd attempted 257 in his rookie year alone 

(07-04-2022, 01:18 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: That's just it. I believe (could be wrong) that they have every incentive to trade him. In fact, I think they are probably desperate to do so.

(07-04-2022, 01:29 PM)cow Wrote: Kyrie?  Yes.  Durant?  Yes.  Simmons?  I don't see it.

(07-04-2022, 01:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: It's a rule. They literally aren't allowed to acquire some of the targets they might want while Simmons is on the team. I am 99% sure Simmons gets moved before or during this upcoming Durant transaction.

(07-04-2022, 01:35 PM)cow Wrote: I wouldn't call that desperate.  If that situation comes up, I bet they extract value good value from the trade.

(07-04-2022, 01:38 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Well, "desperate" and "good value" are both terms of relativity. 

I'm simply saying that a shocking number of potential Durant trade outcomes come with the necessity of removing Simmons from the roster. I'm confident that IF Durant gets traded (not a definite, I suppose) THEN Simmons won't be a Net next year.

(07-04-2022, 01:47 PM)cow Wrote: Having potential KD trades that require moving Ben Simmons doesn't mean they'll take the first offer that comes along for him.

(07-04-2022, 01:47 PM)cow Wrote: We (this board) tend to of big names (Kemba and Lowry most recently) and then end up with the likes of Wright and Bullock.  And at the same time we find a way to nitpick big names with concerns about fit and what not.  Hell, someone said this past week they wouldn't be interested in Durant.  

You want a big name?  Offer a future first and THJ or Dinwiddie and additional players to salary match Kyrie's contract.  That would beat what the Lakers are going to offer in Westbrook + distant FRP and the Nets would gladly not send Kyrie where he wants to go.  Thinking we could offer the same and get Ben Simmons instead is crazy.  And Simmons value and the Mavs not being able to afford him is how this tangent kicked off.

(07-04-2022, 01:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Never said anything remotely like that. 

(07-04-2022, 01:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Oh, sure, but this isn't the conversation (I thought) we were having. 

(07-04-2022, 01:52 PM)cow Wrote: But you inserted yourself into the discussion (that's not a bad thing!) about the value of Ben Simmons and if they Mavs could afford him which was the crux of the discussion.  If they need to trade him to get someone more desirable, it doesn't mean they are going to punt on his value.

(07-04-2022, 01:56 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I didn't mean to insert myself anywhere or disrupt the flow of anything (sidebar: this is why I hate the super threads, especially when every tweet/topic gets discussed in all 3-4 of them. Makes it very difficult to follow the conversations), sorry. 

I think there's an outside chance the Mavs could afford him (if they're willing to pay the price). No earthly idea if A) the Nets will get better offers, B) the Mavs even want the guy or C) he even wants to come here. 

I do think that he WILL be traded soon, and that he will be the cheapest of the BRK trio, by far.

(07-04-2022, 01:20 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1543736417507057667?s=20&t=Gs7cJwVTKwVIhMEAZA6a2Q

(07-04-2022, 01:59 PM)cow Wrote: I just think we are talking about two slightly different things albeit about same player.    Love you, bro.

(07-04-2022, 02:04 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Ditto.

Reading through again, I think the only place I disagree with you is that I don't believe BRK's thinking on Simmons will have anything to do with his value (I don't think they'll move him or hold him based on that) but everything to do with the Durant situation. That's all. 

They will get the most favorable outcome possible in whatever deal they include him in, for sure, and sure, that might put him out of reach for Dallas.

(07-04-2022, 02:11 PM)cow Wrote: I still think it's in everyone's best interest to get that band back together again but I'm not sure anyone is willing to swallow their pride.