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MAVS NEWS: Luka Wins Community Cares Award! | DLive's Mom Passes Away| Maxi OUT - Printable Version

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RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Halfnir - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 12:35 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Biggest concern with Simmons is that he likes to play fast. Pushes the pace whenever he can. Most of that is because he can't play in a half court setting. 

Clashes badly with Luka's preferences right off the bat there.

Actually the might be the biggest advantage of the whole pairing if you think about it for a bit. 

Have Simmons handle the fast transition plays for easy points. If that is stopped by opponent, give the ball to Luka to break down the 5-5 set offence. Mavs can't stay league bottom in pace forever.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - SleepingHero - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 03:15 AM)omahen Wrote: I don't think that is a problem. Luka will never push the pace, but I don't think he has a problem if others push the ball. This is how the national team plays and I don't know why in Dallas they always look for Luka after the rebound.


Only explanation is that DFS/Bullock/Maxi aren't good enough to run a fast break and Brunson was always the 2nd option.

I also agree with you I don't think Luka cares about deferring at least initially. But will he start to care when Simmons passes up wide open layups? 



(07-04-2022, 03:31 AM)Halfnir Wrote: Actually the might be the biggest advantage of the whole pairing if you think about it for a bit. 

Have Simmons handle the fast transition plays for easy points. If that is stopped by opponent, give the ball to Luka to break down the 5-5 set offence. Mavs can't stay league bottom in pace forever.

I see where you're coming from and to some extent I agree. I hate how one dimensional the offense feels at times, and would love to adopt more motion/cutting ala the Warriors. In a system like that I think Simmons would shine.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Branduil - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 03:31 AM)Halfnir Wrote: Actually the might be the biggest advantage of the whole pairing if you think about it for a bit. 

Have Simmons handle the fast transition plays for easy points. If that is stopped by opponent, give the ball to Luka to break down the 5-5 set offence. Mavs can't stay league bottom in pace forever.
5v5 set offense? LOL not with Simmons in the lineup. You'll be playing 4v5 every time. Also I hope no one else on the team likes driving in the paint or they can enjoy Simmons' man just standing there waiting for them.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Halfnir - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 04:05 AM)Branduil Wrote: 5v5 set offense? LOL not with Simmons in the lineup. You'll be playing 4v5 every time. Also I hope no one else on the team likes driving in the paint or they can enjoy Simmons' man just standing there waiting for them.

That's a bit black&white too me. Will Simmons stretch the floor in a 5-out setup? No. However, we just played a quite successful season with non-shooter, non-ballhandler Dwight Powell in the lineup playing significant minutes. I bet Simmons can do everything DP did in a set offence and much more as he can actually handle the ball and pass.

The more i think about it, a lineup of Luka/Bullock/DFS/Simmons/Wood might really work well. Five 6-6 to 6-10 mobile, switchable defenders with 3 great to good ones (maybe even 4 if Wood unlocks this part of his game). On offense, you have a great transition facilitator/scorer with Simmons and the best set play facilitator/scorer in the league with Luka. Simmons can play center if Luka has the ball as Wood can stretch the floor but as he's able to facilitate from the post really well, the team play does not stop once the center touches the ball like with Powell or KP.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Branduil - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 04:22 AM)Halfnir Wrote: That's a bit black&white too me. Will Simmons stretch the floor in a 5-out setup? No. However, we just played a quite successful season with non-shooter, non-ballhandler Dwight Powell in the lineup playing significant minutes. I bet Simmons can do everything DP did in a set offence and much more as he can actually handle the ball and pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EHA4UhYuQY


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Omega_Supreme - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 04:22 AM)Halfnir Wrote: That's a bit black&white too me. Will Simmons stretch the floor in a 5-out setup? No. However, we just played a quite successful season with non-shooter, non-ballhandler Dwight Powell in the lineup playing significant minutes. I bet Simmons can do everything DP did in a set offence and much more as he can actually handle the ball and pass.

I am going to trust that Simmons will develop his shot under Kidd. Kidd himself is a lot like Simmons. Elite at everything except shooting. Its a huge difference when the guy coaching you has experienced the same issues as you. 

Simmons is number 1 along with Sexton. 

BTW you can also play Simmons in a Draymond type role in Half Court sets and let him be the screen guy playing the 5.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Branduil - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 04:43 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: I am going to trust that Simmons will develop his shot under Kidd. Kidd himself is a lot like Simmons. Elite at everything except shooting. Its a huge difference when the guy coaching you has experienced the same issues as you. 

Simmons is number 1 along with Sexton. 

BTW you can also play Simmons in a Draymond type role in Half Court sets and let him be the screen guy playing the 5.


This reads like pure wishful thinking to me. Kidd is not a miracle worker. He's a good coach, but it was mostly about bringing out the potential guys already have. But this idea that Kidd can turn straw into gold? Not based on anything. Not based on Simmons work ethic, that's for sure. Look, we already have an example of guys not changing under Kidd. KP played better defense again under Kidd, but he was still the same offensive anvil that he always was. He didn't become a P&R master and start playing a proper 2-man game with Luka. That's why we had to trade him.

Simmons, in his entire NBA career, has not developed ONE new skill. Not one. He's the exact same guy he was as a rookie. He's been coasting off of his incredible athletic talent the entire time, until he got paid, people got critical, and he decided it was time to quit. I don't think he has any interest in playing basketball, it was just a good way to get rich. And you know what, cool for him, he's richer than most of us will ever dream of, but I don't want guys like that on any team I want to win, ever. He's not a basketball player, and he doesn't want to be one.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Halfnir - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 04:37 AM)Branduil Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EHA4UhYuQY

I still think this situation was way overblown. No pressure from the clock, slight misjudgement on Simmons on the threat the jumping defender (Young) poses, so he goes for the pass. If wide open Thybulle would have been ready for the pass and takes the easy bank shoot instead of jumping into the crowd, no-one would talk about this play. To me this failed play was at least as much on Thybulle as on Simmons.

You have overpassing plays like this from Luka every game where he would have a fairly open layup (or dunk if he would be as athletic s Simmons) and chooses to pass it out to an wide open player.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Kammrath - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 02:24 AM)cow Wrote: Can't afford him anyway.


Why? 

When PHI traded him for Harden, the equivalent of THREE 1st round picks (two 1sts and Seth Curry) went along with BS to BRK. That means BS is worth about one 1st in the NBA world and that was BEFORE the back surgery and for a Harden who had asked out and could walk the next summer (and said he would).


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - BolsDamols - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 05:27 AM)Halfnir Wrote: No pressure from the clock, slight misjudgement on Simmons on the threat the jumping defender (Young) poses, so he goes for the pass.


I think he did not want the pressure of shooting two crucial free throws in case he got fouled hence he passed up the shot.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Kammrath - 07-04-2022

https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/1543895455813222401


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Smitty - 07-04-2022

I don’t think the Mavs can be all that picky when it comes to obtaining stars. Considering they’ve never done so, I say it’s time we lower our outrageous standards. If the cost to acquire Kyrie/Simmons is only THJ-Powell it’s a no-brainer.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Kammrath - 07-04-2022

https://twitter.com/krystenpeek/status/1543952594287988737


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - HoosierDaddyKid - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 08:02 AM)Smitty Wrote: I don’t think the Mavs can be all that picky when it comes to obtaining stars. Considering they’ve never done so, I say it’s time we lower our outrageous standards. If the cost to acquire Kyrie/Simmons is only THJ-Powell it’s a no-brainer.


You couldn't possibly think THJ and Powell will be all it takes to get BS and KI ??  I understand they may have character issues, but talent wise it's no comparison, and you'd hear a dialtone from both teams if you make that call.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - DallasMaverick - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 09:54 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: You couldn't possibly think THJ and Powell will be all it takes to get BS and KI ??  I understand they may have character issues, but talent wise it's no comparison, and you'd hear a dialtone from both teams if you make that call.

Probably right on Kyrie, but has the uncertainty about Ben Simmons' head and back lowered his value enough to make it "even"?


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - HoosierDaddyKid - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 09:32 AM)Kammrath Wrote: https://twitter.com/krystenpeek/status/1543952594287988737

He was a 2nd round pick by the Hawks in 17, then spent a year in Memphis in 19 before playing overseas. Went to Oregon and I thought he had a future since he helped Oregon get to the FF in 16 and lost to NC.  He might be worth a look.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Mavs2021 - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 09:54 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: You couldn't possibly think THJ and Powell will be all it takes to get BS and KI ??  I understand they may have character issues, but talent wise it's no comparison, and you'd hear a dialtone from both teams if you make that call.




From the Brooklyn Nets and the New Jersey Nets. Wink Big Grin



I don´t know about their value though. Kyrie is not only a certified nutjob, but also on an expiring contract and I doubt anybody could be dumb enough to extend him immediately.


The fact that there are very few extra moving parts in those Westbrook/Irving discussions and the Lakers seem to ask for the add-ons makes me think the Nets are sick and tired of Irving.


Ben Simmons besides his mental health issues also seems to have some underlying physical health issues. I doubt they want to move on from Simmons though. If you lose Durant+Irving, you are not trading your 3rd star, to


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - HoosierDaddyKid - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 09:57 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Probably right on Kyrie, but has the uncertainty about Ben Simmons' head and back lowered his value enough to make it "even"?

Simmons is young enough through proper training to overcome his back issues. But you have a point.  I get the concern. I want to see how MPJ looks after his 2nd back surgery  with Denver. He's a stud when he's right.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - cow - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 06:49 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Why? 

When PHI traded him for Harden, the equivalent of THREE 1st round picks (two 1sts and Seth Curry) went along with BS to BRK. That means BS is worth about one 1st in the NBA world and that was BEFORE the back surgery and for a Harden who had asked out and could walk the next summer (and said he would).

Gobert just set the market with 5 first round picks.  You can argue the merits of Gobert versus Simmons, both all world defenders with major deficiencies on offense but Simmons is more valuable on that end because of ball handling and play making.  Simmons has more severe headcase issues and possible medical issues but compensation is going to be in the same neighborhood.  Simmons is much younger.  Both contracts are of the same length but Gobert has an additional year on a PO.  Utah was obviously going to trade Gobert.  I don't see the Nets as having desire to trade Simmons.  If Kyrie and KD go, they can make him the focal point which is something he wants.  He'll also keep them in contention as they have no desire to tank.  Let's be overly generous and say he only costs you 3 first round picks and players that are either useful on the court or as future trade assets.  Dallas can't even put together that package.  And while I think Gobert was an overpay, Dallas also has a bad habit of overpaying in trades.

And even if you could scrape together a desirable package, you are leveraging your future again a la the KP trade while still not having paid for the KP trade.


RE: MAVS NEWS: interest in Thybulle? Kyrie?? | leaving roster spot for future? - Omega_Supreme - 07-04-2022

(07-04-2022, 05:13 AM)Branduil Wrote: This reads like pure wishful thinking to me. Kidd is not a miracle worker. He's a good coach, but it was mostly about bringing out the potential guys already have. But this idea that Kidd can turn straw into gold? Not based on anything. Not based on Simmons work ethic, that's for sure. Look, we already have an example of guys not changing under Kidd. KP played better defense again under Kidd, but he was still the same offensive anvil that he always was. He didn't become a P&R master and start playing a proper 2-man game with Luka. That's why we had to trade him.

Simmons, in his entire NBA career, has not developed ONE new skill. Not one. He's the exact same guy he was as a rookie. He's been coasting off of his incredible athletic talent the entire time, until he got paid, people got critical, and he decided it was time to quit. I don't think he has any interest in playing basketball, it was just a good way to get rich. And you know what, cool for him, he's richer than most of us will ever dream of, but I don't want guys like that on any team I want to win, ever. He's not a basketball player, and he doesn't want to be one.

Ben Simmons shooting issues are in his head. If you watch off season pickup play of Ben Simmons he exhibits an ability to shoot from the outside so this notion that there is no chance is completely off base.

He has the ability, he just lacks the confidence. Confidence can be fixed by coaching. Its not like its a Shaq free throw situation and many people exaggerate Ben Simmons issues due to the playoff game he had a few years ago. 

By the way, Kidd did not become a consistent shooting threat until age 34 FYI. SMH 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZKor0eb2Oc