(12-23-2021, 10:15 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: The hard part to figure out with Jalen, to stay with the analogy, is he really "attractive" or is it just because we are nearly "closing time" (contract year)?  I like the guy and think he's a hard worker, he's obviously a winner if you follow his career, and he's definitely in the category of what Nick Saban would call an "and" guy and not a "but" guy, but can he keep the production up or is the "contract year" thing, that honestly, seems to be playing out with THJ?

So, does he get paid and production levels off or does he keep improving?   If it's the former, it's a sell high situation and get what you can...maybe with DoeDoe (contract year) too, but who knows?  That's the question...is he what we need going forward and improving or do we parlay that into a better player?

The Mavs actually faced this same issue about 12-13 years ago with another player that they had drafted (well, draft night trade) that was improving, and they traded Devin Harris for Jason Kidd and won a championship...so, they've been here before.  I really didn't want them to trade Harris, because he was improving and it felt more right to win it with one of "our guys", but I was wrong...we'll see now.

(12-25-2021, 10:03 AM)RedFlag41 Wrote: What about trade KP, Moses Brown for Gordon Hayward.

I also imagine the Mavs trading THJ, Brunson and picks for Jerami Grant.

(12-25-2021, 10:03 AM)RedFlag41 Wrote: What about trade KP, Moses Brown for Gordon Hayward.

I think KP and Hayward has about the same value. Both have injury issues, both have been an All Star once. KP is young and has upside while Hayward has playoff experience. Hornets has a need for center. Moses, as a young center with upside, is a thrown-in to add value to KP.

In Hayward, the Mavs will have a second banana scorer and playmaker. Can play SG, SF, PF. Can run the offense through him, can facilitate, can get his own bucket if needed.

KP will be the PF/Center that Hornets need.

I also imagine the Mavs trading THJ, Brunson and picks for Jerami Grant.

Grant can defend and score.

I imagine a starting line up of:

Pg Luka
SG Hayward
SF Grant
PF DFS
C Maxi

Hayward will play SG on offense but will defend forwards on defense while Grant and DFS will be the primary perimeter defenders. Maxi will sread the floor as a stretch 5 and must play the roll-man on offense.

That line up can play a switching defense if the like.

(12-25-2021, 12:20 PM)omahen Wrote: I think both moves make a lot of sense from Mavs perspective. Mavs would get a modern core around Luka that would make sense and it would also allow to play Powell with those wings. It would be quite easy to merge those two deals. I would try to keep Brunson and even THJ and only trade picks for Grant.

Charlotte is one of rare teams that could see value in KP as they definitely need a center. There are though some other high profile and cheaper options reportedly on the block: Nurkic, Turner and Sabonis. I would imagine Indiana would be looking rather for younger pieces than Hayward, if they are serious about the rebuild. From these perspective KP could be a benefit for Charlotte as he would allow them to keep younger players and picks. I am not sure if KP really has lower value than Hayward as he is much younger. 

So my three team deal would look like:
Dal: Grant, Hayward
Cha: KP
Det: Bullock (or Kleber), Green, 2 FRP

(12-25-2021, 03:50 PM)mvossman Wrote: So in this scenario assuming we sign DFS and Brunson we will be more than 25 mil over the tax line and burned every asset we have.  Is that team (a team you are starting Powell at center) good enough to go all in on?

(12-25-2021, 04:36 PM)omahen Wrote: I think the top 7 rotation in the playoffs are Luka-Grant-Hayward-DFS-Maxi-Brunson-THJ. Actually very good rotation and this is a team that could survive with a very average center in the regular season, imho. Powell might even look and work very well in this kind of line-up.

(12-26-2021, 11:46 AM)mvossman Wrote: That is a good team, but I don't think its a contender.  With three poor defenders (Luka/THJ/Brunson), no elite defenders, and very limited rim protection, its hard to see that team being more than average defensively.

(12-26-2021, 11:46 AM)mvossman Wrote: I just don't see Cuban trading all of his picks and going deep into tax for a player unless he is a "star", and Grant does not fall into that category.

(12-26-2021, 12:22 PM)omahen Wrote: With the KP-Bullock-Green for Hayward-Grant the Mavs get to 141 before DFS/Brunson. No realistic way to avoid tax other than letting Brunson/DFS walk. However, both Grant and Hayward (and Powell and Kleber) expire a season after, so Mavs could get out of tax if needed. I think there is very little possibility for Mavs to stay competitive and avoid paying tax. Cuban will have to open his pockets. At least this way they are competitive, imho.

(12-26-2021, 01:34 PM)mvossman Wrote: If you spend all of your assets on Grant and Hayward, and then let them walk in a year to avoid the tax, you have obviously made a terrible mistake.  I think you need to temper your desire to be "competitive" next year with a need to look at long term future.  The goal is not to be competitive now as much as its to be competitive in 25 onward (when Luka starts thinking about staying or leaving).

I think you should probably brace yourself for the likelihood that Cuban is not going to pay the tax next year.  It might have been different if they had a more productive offseason and looked like they were one piece away, but that did not happen.  With a terrible free agent pool, limited access to picks and virtually no assets with Brunson/DFS being UFA, they are very likely going to do a small reset to stay under the tax and prepare for making bigger moves in 2023.

(12-26-2021, 01:34 PM)mvossman Wrote: f you spend all of your assets on Grant and Hayward, and then let them walk in a year to avoid the tax, you have obviously made a terrible mistake.

(12-26-2021, 01:34 PM)mvossman Wrote: stay under the tax and prepare for making bigger moves in 2023.

(12-26-2021, 01:48 PM)omahen Wrote: I think it is very likely Mavs sit out TDL again other than some little cosmetic trade like Redick last season.

(12-26-2021, 02:03 PM)Jym Wrote: Honestly I'm not going to have an ounce of ill-will towards Luka if he forces himself out in several years if the tax is still a major sticking point
When did Cuban turn into Sarver?

(12-26-2021, 09:14 PM)RedFlag41 Wrote: I think Grant is still being underrated a little bit. I think he can be a legit 3rd banana who fits with Luka. A defensive stud who is not a liability on offense and who can energize the team whenever needed.

(12-27-2021, 11:58 AM)mvossman Wrote: See I was thinking he was a bit overrated.  I don't really think he is a stud defender.  I think he is a lot like DFS in that he is a little above average with versatility being his biggest strength.  He is a quality starter and would be a good fit on the team.  Just don't know that I want to pay 2 firsts for a one year rental of him.  I don't see this team being a contender next year and that is the kind of a move a potential contender would make.

(12-27-2021, 08:23 PM)RedFlag41 Wrote: You are all probably right. The more prudent course of action is to conserve assets and develop players the team already have and either make them part of a future contending team or flip them for more assets or better players. But, I just think that the Mavs with Luka playing his best still has a shot to make it all the way as long he has the a supporting cast who will plug his weaknesses and will give him the most opportunities to succeed. And I think that is by surrounding him with enough two-way players who will not be liabilities either way. I really want the team to compete every time and not watch them lose and try to rebuild with the hope that they will someday maybe compete. I want them to compete now.