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+--- Thread: NBA TRADE TALK: TDL over (/showthread.php?tid=1176)
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RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - cow - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 03:16 PM)omahen Wrote: I disagree with this. I still think Mavs are one good player away from being serious. Luka-KP-one good player would be serious. And I feel sorry for you if your optimal team future is years of tanking after years of tanking. Mavs can try it with this team and have their years of tanking afterwards, if they wish so.
I don't need or want your pity. Tanking afterwards if you giving up half. of your drat capitol.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - dirkfansince1998 - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 03:16 PM)omahen Wrote: And I feel sorry for you if your optimal team future is years of tanking after years of tanking.
Did I miss something. The Mavs never deliberately started a season with the intention to add and develop young talent. Tank and get a high draft pick.
At some point the makeshift rosters simply sucked so bad that they had to throw in the towel after 1/2 or 2/3 of the season.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - omahen - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 03:28 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Did I miss something. The Mavs never deliberately started a season with the intention to add and develop young talent. Tank and get a high draft pick.
At some point the makeshift rosters simply sucked so bad that they had to throw in the towel after 1/2 or 2/3 of the season.
Not really sure what are you replying at. I am not the one rooting for the rebuild. I am the one saying this team has many chances to be improved.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - dirkfansince1998 - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 03:32 PM)omahen Wrote: Not really sure what are you replying at. I am not the one rooting for the rebuild. I am the one saying this team has many chances to be improved.
Tanking after years of tanking? Mavs never really tanked. They just sucked. Even when they landed Luka they tried to win for at least half of the season. I don´t think Cow´s proposal is outlandish. The Mavs never build the necessary foundation and rushed the rebuild. They are paying the price right now. Lack of talent, picks and assets with trade value. They really need to stop thinking about one year windows and actually develop a longterm plan to improve the roster. If that includes tanking a season or at least adjusting the rotation and focusing on players that are on the right time line that´s not the worst approach.
Maybe this team is only one great player away from contending (I don´t think so unless it is an allstar level player) but how are they going to land that guy without giving up the few pieces they already have (1-2 first round picks won´t be enough).
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - omahen - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 03:45 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Tanking after years of tanking? Mavs never really tanked. Even when they landed Luka they tried to win for at least half of the season.
Ok, missed that. I thought Mavs did intentionally tank for two seasons.
(12-21-2021, 03:45 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Maybe this team is only one great player away from contending (I don´t think so unless it is an allstar level player) but how are they going to land that guy without giving up the few pieces they already have (1-2 first round picks won´t be enough).
I guess we don't agree here. Good starters cost max 2 FRP. See Gordon, for example. #24 pick from last draft and another FRP. And they included that horrible Harris contract.
All stars cost a young player and 2 FRP. See Vucevic.
I believe price of Wood/Grant level of players will be max 2 FRP.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - michaeltex - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 03:28 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Did I miss something. The Mavs never deliberately started a season with the intention to add and develop young talent. Tank and get a high draft pick.
At some point the makeshift rosters simply sucked so bad that they had to throw in the towel after 1/2 or 2/3 of the season.
Problem was they never wanted to overtly commit to tanking, to keep attendance up. In essence the team was so bad that tanking was justified, but the coaching staff screwed the tanking up by winning late season games and not getting more balls in the lottery pile.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - Mavs2021 - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 03:50 PM)omahen Wrote: Ok, missed that. I thought Mavs did intentionally tank for two seasons.
I guess we don't agree here. Good starters cost max 2 FRP. See Gordon, for example. #24 pick from last draft and another FRP. And they included that horrible Harris contract.
All stars cost a young player and 2 FRP. See Vucevic.
I believe price of Wood/Grant level of players will be max 2 FRP.
We are a 14-15.
We have the 20th best record in the league.
Our 2nd best player is league wide considered a 3rd option. Oh he is also injured half the time.
Our 4th and 5th best player are on expiring UFA contracts. They will cost $25M in additional annual salary combined to retain. Assuming they want to stay.
We are 10 games behind the Warriors without Klay.
We are 10 games behind the Nets without Irving.
We are behind the Nuggets without Murray and OPJ.
We are behind the Clippers without Kawhi.
We are behind the Wolves period.
...and Jerami Grant is going to fix all that?
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - burekemde - 12-21-2021
This Mavs team is now sitting for playoff play-in spot, and is a game or two away from sixth seed to guarantee a playoff position. We have seen that when Luka gets going late in the seasons, we can beat potentially any team on the planet, even ones with two superstars. Why in the world would we tank and lose on purpose? There is a real chance to go all the way. Why would we destroy that for getting a better position in the draft? You can easy bust picking early in the draft. The key is just to draft well, there are good players all over the draft.
I say trade for one more great player, and take a shot at the throne. This season is going to get ugly down the road, and many teams will miss key players due to how covid develops. Look how far Hawks got last year by having players available and getting the chemistry and schemes correct late in the season. Key is getting to playoffs, and being healthy and avoid injuries, and developing the chemistry and the schemes. Then, anything can happen if you have Luka on the team. Lets also remember KP looks a lot better now. This team misses the third impact player on the team. One that can give you constant scoring ability, not sometimes ala THJ, Maxi, DFS etc. A constant scoring threath every night against anyone ala Luka, KP, Brunson. One more of these, and then anything can happen.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - ClutchDirk - 12-21-2021
What the Mavs need most is a miracle...we are due one IMO but probably will not get one...
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - omahen - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 04:24 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: ...and Jerami Grant is going to fix all that?
I think it is possible. One good player would push our players in correct roles. Now everyone is asked to do too much. He also helps on both sides of the floor. Of course I hope Mavs will start playing lineups that make sense in playoffs.
Mavs were basically same level as Clippers last season. I don't believe Luka would last with such load through 4 playoff series, but additional player able to do something would help with that. With a team capable of contending it also makes sense to pay tax.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - cow - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 04:28 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: What the Mavs need most is a miracle...we are due one IMO but probably will not get one...
The ping ball gods will reward us and we'll draft Darko's little brother.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - ClutchDirk - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 04:42 PM)cow Wrote: The ping ball gods will reward us and we'll draft Darko's little brother.
Ping pong balls is the same as the refs...we never get any help from them...only heartache and disappointment...
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - Scott41theMavs - 12-21-2021
I think that a KP/Brunson package for a Luka Robin is the best-case scenario right now. Barring that, trade the two of them for a kaboodle of starters and rotation players (Murray, Poeltl, and Vassell is still my pipe dream). We simply cannot keep KP. If Kidd's experiment in making KP look good has taught us anything, it's that 1) he doesn't fit with Luka, and 2) he's overpaid. And then there are the injury concerns. There are many options for how to re-do this team over the next two years. None of them involve retaining KP. Too big of a salary slot. Ideally, THJ goes too.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - mvossman - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 05:16 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I think that a KP/Brunson package for a Luka Robin is the best-case scenario right now. Barring that, trade the two of them for a kaboodle of starters and rotation players (Murray, Poeltl, and Vassell is still my pipe dream). We simply cannot keep KP. If Kidd's experiment in making KP look good has taught us anything, it's that 1) he doesn't fit with Luka, and 2) he's overpaid. And then there are the injury concerns. There are many options for how to re-do this team over the next two years. None of them involve retaining KP. Too big of a salary slot. Ideally, THJ goes too.
Based on your own estimation of KP value, why would Spurs give up that much for KP/Brunson? Personally I think KP has looked just fine this season. I don't agree with the second center to "protect" KP and honestly Luka has not been himself all season. If we can get value for him, I am all for it, but I don't see him getting much back in a trade right now, and dumping him to dump him does not really accomplish anything.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - KillerLeft - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 05:39 PM)mvossman Wrote: I don't agree with the second center to "protect" KP and honestly Luka has not been himself all season. If we can get value for him, I am all for it, but I don't see him getting much back in a trade right now, and dumping him to dump him does not really accomplish anything.
Some of us believe that placating KP, with his max contract and his ego, by putting him in the high post whenever he wants, is partly responsible for Luka not being himself so far this season. I suspect this is a major difference in how the situation is viewed.
I agree it would be a much better situation if Kidd would just call him a center, as the little of that we've gotten to see with Luka has looked good. But whether it's at the behest of KP or just something Kidd believes philosophically, that's not what they're doing. Sucks, because that ONE game when they played him at the 5 for a stretch and ran two-man stuff with he and Luka was AWESOME. I thought they had stumbled onto something great that night, but we literally haven't seen it ONCE since then.
I HATE this offense, and I believe it has been customized to trick people into thinking that KP's nightly 6-18 shooting is "good." I can't stand it anymore.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - fifteenth - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 05:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Sucks, because that ONE game when they played him at the 5 for a stretch and ran two-man stuff with he and Luka was AWESOME.
WHY HAVE WE ONLY SEEN THAT ONCE THIS SEASON!!! AND WHY HAVE WE ONLY SEEN IT, LIKE, TWICE IN 3 YEARS!!!!!!
(12-21-2021, 05:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Sucks, because that ONE game when they played him at the 5 for a stretch and ran two-man stuff with he and Luka was AWESOME.
We were so excited after that game. Silly us.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - cow - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 05:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Some of us believe that placating KP, with his max contract and his ego, by putting him in the high post whenever he wants, is partly responsible for Luka not being himself so far this season. I suspect this is a major difference in how the situation is viewed.
I agree it would be a much better situation if Kidd would just all him a center, as the little of that we've gotten to see with Luka has looked good. But whether it's at the behest of KP or just something Kidd believes philosophically, that's not what they're doing. Sucks, because that ONE game when they played him at the 5 for a stretch and ran two-man stuff with he and Luka was AWESOME. I thought they had stumbled onto something great that night, but we literally haven't seen it ONCE since then.
I HATE this offense, and I believe it has been customized to trick people into thinking that KP's nightly 6-18 shooting is "good." I can't stand it anymore.
We also can't go back to last years version of KP as an afterthought either. I just don't think you can have Luka at his best and KP at his best with the two sharing the floor.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - Chicagojk - 12-21-2021
So would Julius Randle fit with this team? I don't think he is gettable now but maybe with another half season or season of uninspired play. Not sure if he would defend enough but he interior play and ball handling would work nice, I think.
https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1472392787232387072
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - RedFlag41 - 12-21-2021
If you think KP, JB is our best asset package right now, who do you think is/are the best player/s we can get with that package in order to improve the team?
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons out for mental health | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - cow - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 06:40 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: So would Julius Randle fit with this team? I don't think he is gettable now but maybe with another half season or season of uninspired play. Not sure if he would defend enough but he interior play and ball handling would work nice, I think.
https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1472392787232387072
Get him when he enters the Shawn Marion portion of his career and just let him run with your second unit and get buckets.