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+--- Thread: NBA TRADE TALK: TDL over (/showthread.php?tid=1176)
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RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - michaeltex - 10-29-2021
(10-29-2021, 12:32 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Was just on tradenba looking around and saw a huge trade where we give up KP, Kleber and 3 firsts fir Koncar, Brooks, Adams and Jones and a Mem 2nd (it was in a 4 team trade where Mem got KP and Simmons).
That got me thinking… I REALLY like Brooks game and would love to have him here. KP and JJJ on there would be pretty great…when they’re both healthy.
Is this enough?
KP/2025 1st/2022 2nd for Brooks/Adams?
I didn’t realize Brooks was 6’7”. A lineup of:
Luka/JB/Burke
THJ/Frank/Brown
Brooks/Bullock/Green
DFS/Kleber/Powell
Adams/WCS/Bobi/Brown
Adams and Brooks bring that thick toughness that we don’t have on this team and that looks more like a group of players that Kidd would thrive with. Brooks is s secondary ballhandler so we get that covered with the starting unit too!
DAL gave up 3 FRPs (DSJ + 2 futures) to get KP and now we're going to give up another 3 FRPs PLUS Kleber to get rid of him?
Not likely.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - david75090 - 10-29-2021
The Mavs have already hypothetically traded Maxi in almost every hypothetical trade since he's been a Mav. Not sure that we can hypothetically trade him again. On another thread he was touted as the Mavs best big man. It that's true, shouldn't the Mavs hang onto the best ones?
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - cow - 10-29-2021
(10-29-2021, 01:24 PM)david75090 Wrote: The Mavs have already hypothetically traded Maxi in almost every hypothetical trade since he's been a Mav. Not sure that we can hypothetically trade him again. On another thread he was touted as the Mavs best big man. It that's true, shouldn't the Mavs hang onto the best ones?
Jalen, DFS and Maxi are valuable assets. We shouldn't consider them in deals that look like Seth for J Rich, but if Jalen, DFS and Maxi are your path to high level starter (a CJ McCollum level player), then you begrudgingly let them go. We just can't afford to squander those assets.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - ItsGoTime - 10-29-2021
(10-29-2021, 12:52 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I like the framework, I don't like the cost.In those bolded returns, Holmes is the only name that makes me perk up a bit, but not to the extent that Brooks does. He is that junk yard dog I’ve been clamoring for and I think Kidd is the type of coach to unleash the jyd on opponents. I’d be happy to not include the first and maybe just include 2 seconds. I think Brooks would be the final glue that would seal all these glue guys together.
I don't think the Mavs adding a first is worth Dillon Brooks. I love Adams, but the guy was just used as a salary dump and shouldn't carry that much value. Further the Grizz have Jackson Jr. that plays almost exactly the same role as KP, being a lanky stretch 4 that mainly spots up and blocks shots at a high rate. Funnily enough he's also injury prone.
I think there are better analogues of that type of frame work. For example, the Kings might bite on a Buddy/Holmes or Buddy/Bagley trade for KP (*the latter I find more realistic), and I don't think it would cost a first at all.
Another one could be with the Cavs+Thunder. KP to the Cavs. Favors+Sexton to the Mavs. Minor compensation to the Thunder for Favors.
Point is that FRP need to be used in getting a return that's more substantial than Brooks, at least to me.
Having 2 JJJs or KPs on the team (shot blocking stretch 4/5s) on a team is hardly a reason to balk. I mean there are those that want Maxi to start with KP here and that would be no different. The injury history is for sure a valid reason. Seems like Mem has the depth to be able to handle it though, and if they can just time their injuries until the playoffs, they can both be fresh for a run!
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - dynamicalVoid - 10-29-2021
KP, DFS, Jalen, THJ and Maxi should all be used as discussions with other teams to get new talent in here.
KP plus one of those guys to get out from under KP...as long as a reasonable player is coming back and not tied to a trash contract.
Package two of Jalen, Maxi, DFS, THJ for a solid starting need position. Obviously DFS and THJ are starting so we would need to get a very solid proven player back for them or a very promising youngster. I dont think you move 2 starters in a deal for one player unless its a very very capable player.
We need fresh talent in here.
Only issue I have is...even though his percentages arent ideal and he isnt proven to be clutch...I have no problem with DFS 3pt shot. It isnt ugly...and hes not missing badly. DFS might be a keeper unless market for him is going to price us out thus we should move him.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - ItsGoTime - 10-29-2021
I think Brooks and Adams is watering down KP’s value, but it nets better fitting parts that make this a 2011 type dark horse championship team.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - cow - 10-29-2021
(10-29-2021, 01:53 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think Brooks and Adams is watering down KP’s value, but it nets better fitting parts that make this a 2011 type dark horse championship team.
I'm not sure KP has positive value at this point, largely due to his contract and to a somewhat lesser extent, equal parts health and production.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - ItsGoTime - 10-29-2021
(10-29-2021, 02:37 PM)cow Wrote: I'm not sure KP has positive value at this point, largely due to his contract and to a somewhat lesser extent, equal parts health and production.Ya, value might not be the right word for it. Talent might be better.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - KillerLeft - 10-29-2021
Right now, today, I would be shocked if there was a team in the NBA who would offer anything to take KP back in trade. I think value is secondary to the problem that he's not effective, seldom healthy and one of the highest paid players in a league where contracts are guaranteed. I fear that the chance to scam someone into taking KP has passed.
The Porzingis era will end unceremoniously with his contract simply ending, and that will be one hell of a fine day.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - dynamicalVoid - 10-29-2021
(10-29-2021, 04:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Right now, today, I would be shocked if there was a team in the NBA who would offer anything to take KP back in trade. I think value is secondary to the problem that he's not effective, seldom healthy and one of the highest paid players in a league where contracts are guaranteed. I fear that the chance to scam someone into taking KP has passed.
The Porzingis era will end unceremoniously with his contract simply ending, and that will be one hell of a fine day.
If that's the case...and I tend to agree with you...I say sit his ass until playoffs. Even if you think he hurts the team being on the court in playoffs. If you are going to pay him...might as well make sure you get some worth out of him by having him healthy for playoffs
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - Jason Terry - 10-29-2021
(10-29-2021, 04:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Right now, today, I would be shocked if there was a team in the NBA who would offer anything to take KP back in trade. I think value is secondary to the problem that he's not effective, seldom healthy and one of the highest paid players in a league where contracts are guaranteed. I fear that the chance to scam someone into taking KP has passed.You’re right that today his value is lowest ever.
The Porzingis era will end unceremoniously with his contract simply ending, and that will be one hell of a fine day.
An expiring max contract has some positive trade value regardless of player. Attaching players and picks to KP can net us someone(s) else. KP is still a 20 something in a league with some desperate teams
Bottom line is he needs to go and has negative value to the Dallas Mavericks. We may have to wait till the summer. We can take it slow if needed and find the best deal
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - burekemde - 10-31-2021
(10-29-2021, 06:12 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: You’re right that today his value is lowest ever.
An expiring max contract has some positive trade value regardless of player. Attaching players and picks to KP can net us someone(s) else. KP is still a 20 something in a league with some desperate teams
Bottom line is he needs to go and has negative value to the Dallas Mavericks. We may have to wait till the summer. We can take it slow if needed and find the best deal
I am not convinced KP is and will not be an important championship piece for Mavs. I am also really disappointed in KP's skills and was expecting more, actually far more for that huge contract.
Nevertheless, all that being said, when/if used correctly, he can win games for the Mavs. And this is not hypothetical - we have seen him do that before in many many games. We have seen 2 seasons ago when he is moving well and fit, that he can dominate as rim protector and that was key for winning. That was so important for the team and for outcome of games. On offense, we are trying a lot for him to become an offensive superstar, but the truth is that he doesn't have those natural offensive skills and most likely will not develop them. Its important to realise this, rather than keep trying something that doesn't work and inhibits the team performance. And annoys other players as well.
It is important to use his skills correctly. That is the key for any player. KP can shoot the 3, and stand in the corner and be a weapon like that. For the money, he should be able to do more than that offensively, yes. But, if he excels in defense, protects the rim, and shoots the 3, he can still be a huge factor for the success of this team, it is important not to forget thus. Even if he sits out more games in season than we all would hope for.
He has started again to show presence under the rim. I am really happy to see this. Blocking shots again. Same with Maxi. I have to say, that is really exciting for the prognosis of this season. I think when those two eventually start at C and PF (DP needs to be benched), then I think we will see Mavs perform much better than currently. The paint will be safe and that will make us much stronger.
Offensively playing KP and Maxi is having two guys in the corners shooting. They can't do one on one offense and be productive. So how could we get the diversity on offense with Maxi and KP, who else can enter the paint other than Luka? To me that answer is JB. So I would really like to see JB play together with KP and Maxi and Luka. This will put less pressure on KP and Maxi to do something inside and allow them to roam outside for the 3 pointer. While Luka and JB, and THJ to lesser extent, could take care of attacking the paint.
A skill from KP that is completely underestimated and underused, is his ability to cut to the rim from the weakside. We have seen this before (last season and two seasons ago) when Luka is on the strong side and throwing it up for KP cutting in from the weak side to the basket and making a dunk. He is a force here KP in these situations. Why this is not used more, I have really no idea. Its such an effective play that it could be a base play for the offense and the defenses would struggle containing this really. In this play KP can choose to stay in the weak side corner for the 3, or if covered well he can cut inside and Luka can toss it up to him from the strong side. Any big would struggle containing KP on the perimeter while also containing this dangerous cut to the basket inside. This would also allow him for an off ball screen if a big is on him, and letting him shoot an open 3. And if a small is on him, then he could do this cut to the basket from weak side.
It is plays like these that we need to find to get KP going offensively. The small things where his size and athleticism just outmatches most defenders. This is what needs to be done by design of plays.
It is NOT effective placing him in the post and asking him to do some skills, he just does not have and will most likely not gain soon. He is a player you draw plays for offensively. Not a player where you give him the ball and ask him to figure something out. You do that with Luka and JB. They can get the ball and make something happen without any play design. KP is not that offensive player.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - ReunionMav - 11-01-2021
Well thought out ideas Burekemde. I too have liked KP cutting to the basket and follow shots as well.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - Kammrath - 11-01-2021
https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/1455285330735738883
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - ItsGoTime - 11-01-2021
So NOW Doc is trying to up his trade value...
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - Kammrath - 11-02-2021
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1455630403646238728
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - fifteenth - 11-02-2021
CONSIPIRACY THEORY: KP is out because back tightness that doesn't heal completely could jeapardize the trade that's in the works.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - dynamicalVoid - 11-02-2021
(11-02-2021, 03:52 PM)fifteenth Wrote: CONSIPIRACY THEORY: KP is out because back tightness that doesn't heal completely could jeapardize the trade that's in the works.
I sorry for being a retard...but I cant tell which way youre going with this comment.
Are you making fun of KP always being injured? Or are you jokingly suggesting the KP could be faking injury to sabotage a trade he doesnt like?
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - audiosway - 11-02-2021
(10-29-2021, 04:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Right now, today, I would be shocked if there was a team in the NBA who would offer anything to take KP back in trade. I think value is secondary to the problem that he's not effective, seldom healthy and one of the highest paid players in a league where contracts are guaranteed. I fear that the chance to scam someone into taking KP has passed.
The Porzingis era will end unceremoniously with his contract simply ending, and that will be one hell of a fine day.
I think right now his value is low definitely. All that they need from him is a good playoff series to get some bad team like Washington to give up a couple of assets for him. Someone will take him. But, it has to be handled correctly for that to happen.
But, yes, it will be a great day when the door closes on him. I didn't want the bum to begin with.
RE: NBA TRADE TALK: Simmons suspended | Ayton "very unhappy" in PHX - KillerLeft - 11-02-2021
(11-02-2021, 04:12 PM)audiosway Wrote: I didn't want the bum to begin with.
Man, I did. Good for you if you saw this coming.
I thought the Mavs were getting a second foundational talent. I thought he'd be able to change games on both ends. Instead, they got a guy who I honestly don't think is one of the five best players on the team.
I'm literally counting the seconds until this hell is over.