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+--- Thread: 2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED] (/showthread.php?tid=1100)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - BackToSquareOne - 06-12-2022
I wasn't sure whether/where to post this one ... I'm very unsure about the provenance of the account - which has a June 2022 start date .. moreover, KillerLeft seems to have converted the draft thread into a roster building discussion (
) and the Brunson Burner thread was also a possibility .. however .. maybe it's worth posting and maybe this is the place?https://twitter.com/WeTalkHooops/status/1535743036734545920
What, if anything, should the Mavs give up in addition to Brunson to sign Beal?
(fwiw the Mavs would have to send some additional player(s) to make a Mavs-Wizards deal work. Decreasing amounts depending on Brunson's starting salary, but, just for the sake of illustration, between $19m and $25.6m in salary if JB's salary starts at $20m and between $13.75m and $15.1m if he gets the $30.5m max.)
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - ItsGoTime - 06-12-2022
(06-12-2022, 08:30 PM)BackToSquareOne Wrote: I wasn't sure whether/where to post this one ... I'm very unsure about the provenance of the account - which has a June 2022 start date .. moreover, KillerLeft seems to have converted the draft thread into a roster building discussion (Probably would require KP in the deal and KL and DFS98’s heads would explode!!!
https://twitter.com/WeTalkHooops/status/1535743036734545920
What, if anything, should the Mavs give up in addition to Brunson to sign Beal?
(fwiw the Mavs would have to send some additional player(s) to make a Mavs-Wizards deal work. Decreasing amounts depending on Brunson's starting salary, but, just for the sake of illustration, between $19m and $25.6m in salary if JB's salary starts at $20m and between $13.75m and $15.1m if he gets the $30.5m max.)
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - BackToSquareOne - 06-12-2022
(06-12-2022, 09:21 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Probably would require KP in the deal and KL and DFS98’s heads would explode!!!
Your tag-line is "This team needs upgraded talent to have championship aspirations. Higher quality talent, not more quantity talent."
Would Beal for Brunson + players and picks be a reasonable way to upgrade talent?
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - KillerLeft - 06-12-2022
(06-12-2022, 07:40 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: At this point, it’s about talking about ALL the avenues open to them, not pigeon holing them into 1 or 2 as “the only way”.
Pretty much my point, exactly. Agreed.
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - ItsGoTime - 06-12-2022
(06-12-2022, 09:28 PM)BackToSquareOne Wrote: Your tag-line is "This team needs upgraded talent to have championship aspirations. Higher quality talent, not more quantity talent."Sooo, Beal is weird for me. I think he is upgraded talent in that sense, but I think we really need a younger Jrue for that spot so bad and i think the Mavs trying Wright and JRich there agree with that thought. So I would do the Beal deal if it fell into our laps, but I think he would just be a stop-gap to an even bigger talent infusion throughout the team. I’m also of the opinion that Luka, at this point in his career, is not ready to work well with another alpha player. So I want all star snub or just barely under that types.
Would Beal for Brunson + players and picks be a reasonable way to upgrade talent?
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - BackToSquareOne - 06-12-2022
(06-12-2022, 09:48 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Sooo, Beal is weird for me. I think he is upgraded talent in that sense, but I think we really need a younger Jrue for that spot so bad and i think the Mavs trying Wright and JRich there agree with that thought. So I would do the Beal deal if it fell into our laps, but I think he would just be a stop-gap to an even bigger talent infusion throughout the team. I’m also of the opinion that Luka, at this point in his career, is not ready to work well with another alpha player. So I want all star snub or just barely under that types.
So, it's Julius Randle, then.
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - Jommybone - 06-12-2022
(06-12-2022, 05:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I would love to get Dragic in this role.
Are we sure he's ready to accept a role that includes no regular rotation minutes, only playing when needed? See, that's the part that's tough.
You would give no rotation minutes to our 4th best player???
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - ItsGoTime - 06-12-2022
(06-12-2022, 10:01 PM)BackToSquareOne Wrote: So, it's Julius Randle, then.Recent allstar, doesn’t work.
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - sterlingmallory - 06-12-2022
Beal would bring a very interesting dynamic to the locker room because I have seen people in the Wizards subreddit say that Beal's ego is huge and that he was one of the guys that had the biggest issue with Dinwiddie trying to be a leader there. I think it would be risky to reunite them.
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - KillerLeft - 06-13-2022
(06-12-2022, 10:08 PM)Jommybone Wrote: You would give no rotation minutes to our 4th best player???
Not if he played the same position as the 3 best, no.
Also, I have a lot of respect for Dragic. Been pushing for him for years, but there’s no way I could rank him higher than 7th on this roster with his age and decline. Still a great get for a team who needs him. Mavs could probably use him, but I don’t think they NEED him now that Dinwiddie is here.
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - omahen - 06-13-2022
(06-12-2022, 08:30 PM)BackToSquareOne Wrote: Beal
Beal basically has a lot of leverage, as he has the player option (no realistic way for Mavs to sign him if he opts out). So he can go to Wizards and say trade me to Dallas or I opt out and walk. Beal wouldn't lose a lot if he opts in and signs max extension with Dallas.
If Beal says it clearly he is not staying with Wizards, the deal should not be that difficult to do, as Wizards don't have a lot of leverage. His peak price was a season ago. They can still command a hefty return, but I think it could be within Dallas possibilities, especially because he has so much leverage.
Brunson would need to agree to go to Wizards and that is likely the cleanest way to do it. It is easy to match the salaries from there and no contract should be a show stopper for a deal like this. I can't imagine how Luka-Beal-Brunson could work due to their defensive limitations, but Beal is arguably much better than Brunson. I can't comment on Beals locker room effect, this is something Mavs would/could/should know, we can only guess.
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - Branduil - 06-13-2022
I don't think it matters because there's a 99% chance that's a made-up rumor
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - DanSchwartzgan - 06-13-2022
(06-13-2022, 01:48 AM)omahen Wrote: Beal basically has a lot of leverage, as he has the player option (no realistic way for Mavs to sign him if he opts out). So he can go to Wizards and say trade me to Dallas or I opt out and walk. Beal wouldn't lose a lot if he opts in and signs max extension with Dallas.
If Beal says it clearly he is not staying with Wizards, the deal should not be that difficult to do, as Wizards don't have a lot of leverage. His peak price was a season ago. They can still command a hefty return, but I think it could be within Dallas possibilities, especially because he has so much leverage.
Brunson would need to agree to go to Wizards and that is likely the cleanest way to do it. It is easy to match the salaries from there and no contract should be a show stopper for a deal like this. I can't imagine how Luka-Beal-Brunson could work due to their defensive limitations, but Beal is arguably much better than Brunson. I can't comment on Beals locker room effect, this is something Mavs would/could/should know, we can only guess.
I thought about ignoring the rumor as too improbable. I can see Beal thinking that Dallas provides him a good opportunity to win. His most recent comments seem to indicate his belief that winning can happen with the Wiz is waning. There is a ready-made slot for him if Brunson is leaving. The other thing that is interesting to me is the numbers are so large that BYC is easily overcome. In fact, it can be as easy as Brunson + THJ and some picks and both sides of the deal work without a third team.
Washington certainly needs a PG, so there is that. The biggest question to me is whether Brunson will play along and go to DC. Maybe they money whip him. I used $25 as a starting number. Outgoing is $32.1 with THJ, which is within the 125% rule on Beal's $36.4mm. Incoming to Washington is $44.6mm which is also within the rule going the other way. Pretending for a moment this is the least bit real, Brunson and THJ aren't exactly dog meat. What kind of draft capital goes to Washington in such a deal (if any)?
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - Kammrath - 06-13-2022
(06-13-2022, 08:39 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Pretending for a moment this is the least bit real, Brunson and THJ aren't exactly dog meat. What kind of draft capital goes to Washington in such a deal (if any)?
Super interesting how that would actually work money wise.
To answer your question: No draft capital if I am DAL. I don't really think Beal is an upgrade to JB, but he sure beats losing JB for nothing.
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - omahen - 06-13-2022
(06-13-2022, 08:39 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: What kind of draft capital goes to Washington in such a deal (if any)?
Very difficult question. Beal is definitely considered bigger star than Brunson and THJ and so his value is higher. If we think Brunson and THJ are better or even equal, we wouldn't be discussing the trade in the first place. But Brunson can be considered as a solid long term piece and THj is a neutral value. So I think additional assets would have to go to Washington for sure. I can't think of any recent similar example to help with valuation.
Problem is, Brunson and THJ with KP basically kill Washington flexibility for next couple of years while remaining in the play-in teritory. Do they really want to go this direction if they decide to move Beal. Wouldn't it make sense to go full rebuild mode? So how about Brunson to NY, expiring contracts from NY (Burks, Noel, Kemba) and some assets from NY to Washington. Perhaps another expiring from Dallas instead of THJ to Washington.
NY: Brunson
Washington: Powell (lets be optimistic
), Burks, Kemba, 2023 DAL pick, 2027 DAL pickDallas: Beal
Washington gets three expiring vets they could showcase while losing and potentially flip at deadline plus two picks. NY gets their PG and Dallas Beal.
(06-13-2022, 08:39 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I can see Beal thinking that Dallas provides him a good opportunity to win.
Perhaps we could look another way. How much would competition pay to make the deal happen.
Brooklyn: they can offer 3 years of Simmons problems or a package of Curry, Harris and Mills. They have picks from Harden trade. Contracts are worse Dallas can give, picks are roughly same.
Denver could offer Barton, Morris and Green. Again worse contracts Dallas could give. Too lazy to check what picks they can give.
Clippers could offer Morris and Powell and lousy picks.
Memphis could be an interesting suitor. Adams, Brooks (both expiring) and something else plus a bunch of picks if wanted.
Miami could offer Herro (I think Brunson is better), Robinson (worse than THJ) and Tucker. I don't think they have many picks.
Minnesota: Russel and a bunch of picks
NY: those expiring deals and a bunch of picks
Based on this I think Dallas would need to add at least one non-protected pick. Of course if such a thing would be realistic, the only option for Dallas is a total "all-in" for a high caliber center. So remaining picks for Turner or someone like him. That could be a package that would persuade Beal.
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - omahen - 06-13-2022
While New York won't have the cap room, multiple sources believe Dallas may blink at Brunson's asking price, compelled to sign and trade him to the Knicks.
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RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - Branduil - 06-13-2022
Multiple sauces
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - KillerLeft - 06-13-2022
(06-13-2022, 10:21 AM)Branduil Wrote: Multiple sauces
Dolan, Spike Lee AND Ja Rule all agree that Brunson will be a Knick.
I'm not worried.
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - mvossman - 06-13-2022
(06-13-2022, 09:01 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Super interesting how that would actually work money wise.
To answer your question: No draft capital if I am DAL. I don't really think Beal is an upgrade to JB, but he sure beats losing JB for nothing.
I'm not a fan of bringing Beal in here, but to suggest he is not an upgrade over Brunson is a hot take. He is an efficient 30 point a game scorer already making the max and there will be no question his next contract will be the max. Meanwhile folks are worried we might have to pay Brunson 25.
RE: ROSTER TALK: $10.87M TPE | rebounder priority for DAL, not Gobert? | LaVine? - Kammrath - 06-13-2022
(06-13-2022, 05:33 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm not a fan of bringing Beal in here, but to suggest he is not an upgrade over Brunson is a hot take. He is an efficient 30 point a game scorer already making the max and there will be no question his next contract will be the max. Meanwhile folks are worried we might have to pay Brunson 25.
When I say "don't really think" I am taking all factors into account.
1) Age.
2) Possible future growth.
3) Contract size.
4) Play on BOTH ends (I think Beal is a TERRIBLE defender who would not help the Mavs closing D at all).
5) Attitude and chemistry fit.
So with all those factors in play I don't really think Beal is an upgrade to JB.