(05-31-2024, 12:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I agree that they should take a hard look at someone like Hartenstein. 

The problem with that, however, and the reason that they didn’t pull the trigger on a big at the deadline (I think), is that in THEIR STYLE, Holmgren just isn’t a 4. I know many casual fans (not you) see a guy like Chet and immediately say “him skinny, him not center, him four” as they drool on their remotes, but a move in that direction would essentially turn them into the Timberwolves, and we just saw how that works. 

Now, part of WHY it hasn’t worked (yet) in Minnesota is that Gobert just doesn’t make an impact on the offensive side, whereas Hartenstein would, but…I honestly felt like Holmgren intimidated the Mavs in the paint on defense MORE than Gobert did in this series. I don’t think rim protection is the Thunder’s problem, like at all. I think they need a BACKUP center OPTION that isn’t Jalen Williams, for sure. I think you could make an argument that HE’s a 4, but even then, he’ll still need some time at center so they can run and play 5-out.

So, to me, it’s a hard target to hit. A guy who can play as a traditional big for extended minutes, but doesn’t expect the starting job to be gifted to him upon arrival. Ironically, I think Gafford might’ve been a better fit for them than the Mavericks. but, most of the names we know aren’t going to want to play third big minutes. After the year he just had, I would put Hartenstein on that list of people I would expect to be less than thrilled to go experiment in OKC.

(05-31-2024, 02:40 PM)Luka77 Wrote: My Mavs offseason
1. 6th man-Simons (White/Sexton), for THJ, Powell, Hardy, '25 first.  I may reconsider this based off of Hardy's readiness and production in the finals.

2. SF/PF-Vanderbilt for Maxi, 2 second round picks.  Mavs get younger and more offensively versatile player if he learns to shoot.

Kyrie/Simons
Luka/Green
DJJ/Omax
PJW/Vanderbilt
Gafford/Lively

That squad has multi year championship window.

(05-31-2024, 03:57 PM)mvossman Wrote: That is not going to be enough for Simons and probably not for Sexton either.  I don't know that we want to spend all of our assets and that much cap on a 6th man, and I seriously doubt either of those guys has any interest in being a 6th man.

There is little evidence that Vanderbilt will learn how to shoot.  He does most of his work at the rim.  Not sure he is a good fit offensively on this team.  I also doubt Lakers are interested in pairing oft injured Davis with oft injured Maxi.

My guess is that by next season Lively will be the first name on the center rotation.

(05-31-2024, 04:45 PM)Luka77 Wrote: That team would be around for the next 5 years as they are all around Luka's timeline.  I think you spend the assets to get that done.  Moreover, those 3 players may only be a sixth man for the next two season.   After that time maybe a 34 y.o Kyrie will be okay with taking a back seat to become a sixth man.   Regardless, their desired role is something you talk about before the trade.  I'm thinking one of those guys would be willing to sacrifice to win a championship.

Also at what age did Dorian learn to shoot?  There was little evidence of him learning at 24 yo either.  I think it would worth taking a chance at bc the Mavs would have four 6'6 to 6'8 defenders to throw at people like SGA, Ant, Tatum, Brown, ect. 

Maxi, who has two years less on contract, would be the salary to take on Vando.  The real assets would be the two seconds.  If LAL does truly want to get off Vando, I don't know if they could get better for a player I'm not sure is healthy himself.

(05-31-2024, 04:45 PM)Luka77 Wrote: That team would be around for the next 5 years as they are all around Luka's timeline.  I think you spend the assets to get that done.  Moreover, those 3 players may only be a sixth man for the next two season.   After that time maybe a 34 y.o Kyrie will be okay with taking a back seat to become a sixth man.   Regardless, their desired role is something you talk about before the trade.  I'm thinking one of those guys would be willing to sacrifice to win a championship.

Also at what age did Dorian learn to shoot?  There was little evidence of him learning at 24 yo either.  I think it would worth taking a chance at bc the Mavs would have four 6'6 to 6'8 defenders to throw at people like SGA, Ant, Tatum, Brown, ect. 

Maxi, who has two years less on contract, would be the salary to take on Vando.  The real assets would be the two seconds.  If LAL does truly want to get off Vando, I don't know if they could get better for a player I'm not sure is healthy himself.

(05-31-2024, 05:30 PM)mvossman Wrote: I don't think its common for a young really good offensive player to be interested in moving into a situation where he will be third fiddle and coming off the bench and might be able to crack the starting lineup after two years.  Some vets who have been around the block might think like that, but very few of the young guys do.  Those players need to look at their long term value too.  I'm sure they saw how Brunson value exploded once he got out from under Luka shadow.  I think you are asking/assuming a lot for them to be ok to come here and play from the bench.

Dorian is a single example of a player greatly improving their three point shooting.  How many have tried and failed.  I don't think the odds are in Vanderbilts favor.  They are different type players anyways.  A big part of Dorian's offensive game was the 3 (he just wasn't very good at it).  He took 5 threes per 36 right out of the gate.  In 6 seasons Vanderbilt hasn't taken much more than one 3 per 36.

I think we need to be real careful with assuming/expecting players to improve in areas just because we have seen it happen before.  Dorian improving is three is not likely to mean Vanderbilt will, just like PJ playing much better defense here is not likely to turn Simons into a decent defender.

(05-31-2024, 09:52 PM)Luka77 Wrote: It may not be common but that doesn't mean it can't happen.  Most young guys don't want to come off the bench because it will affect their salary or they lose minutes.  In Simons case he already has his contract and he would not get less minutes.  And like I said Simon shares the same agent as Luka so I am sure he would know at all times his value to the Mavs

Moreover, our very own Jason Terry was a starter in Atlanta and Dallas and then came off the bench to win an NBA championship.  Manu Ginobili (a hall of famer)came off the bench to win a championship. There have been many people through out history that were successful players as starters that then came off the bench to win championship.  Only players with big ego's (Carmelo, Iverson) recently have resisted or been angry when asked to take a bench role.  

Moreover DFS wasn't shooting 5 threes out the gate, he wasn't even shooting 5 shoots total.  It wasn't until DFS was 27y.o that he was shooting 5 threes a game.   Moreover the three wasn't a big part of DFS game coming the league (at 23 y.o) it was by design that they forced him into shooting more threes.  

Also, DFS isn't the only player that increased his three point shooting as they got older.  Maxi was shooting .311 from 3 at 26 y.o taking less than 2 a game.  Only when he was 27 y.o did he start making them at league average of .35 at three a game.

(05-31-2024, 02:40 PM)Luka77 Wrote: My Mavs offseason
1. 6th man-Simons (White/Sexton), for THJ, Powell, Hardy, '25 first.  I may reconsider this based off of Hardy's readiness and production in the finals.

2. SF/PF-Vanderbilt for Maxi, 2 second round picks.  Mavs get younger and more offensively versatile player if he learns to shoot.

Kyrie/Simons
Luka/Green
DJJ/Omax
PJW/Vanderbilt
Gafford/Lively

That squad has multi year championship window.

(06-01-2024, 12:05 AM)Branduil Wrote: I don't think the Mavs need any urgency to add new pieces this offseason. The main task is going to be to move off THJ's salary so they can keep DJJ.

As disappointing as Exum has been in the playoffs, Hardy has really shown something. I'd like to see him have the opportunity to take the 6th man role off the bench next season. Similarly, PJ and Gafford will have a full offseason to integrate into the offense.

And I think we still can't fully appreciate the potential for Lively. Even if his defense can't improve much from its already very high level, there's a lot he can improve on in offense. Not just free throws, but if he can start shooting threes, it will unlock a new level for the offense. It would be the 5-out AND lob threat we always hoped for with KP, but never really delivered

(06-01-2024, 09:43 AM)BigDirk41 Wrote: I see zero reason for DJJ or PJ to be moved to the bench next year. Both have been great this season and in the playoffs. Both players have shot higher 3 point percentages in the playoffs than in the regular season. Both players increased their ppg in the playoffs also. That's exactly what you want from your role players is to elevate their games when it matters the most. Hardy and Maxi  have also raised their 3 point %. The only need for this team is the right type of role players to add to the team or possibly a 6th man if we don't think Hardy is ready for that role. I personally think Hardy is ready for that role. It's more about retaining all our top talent and improving if there is a chance.

(05-31-2024, 12:38 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not sure. If they want to keep their core together they have to think about the extensions of their rookie contracts. A big 1-2 year deal wouldn't hurt but any additional year would really hurt their chances to resign their own guys.

(05-31-2024, 12:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: So, to me, it’s a hard target to hit. A guy who can play as a traditional big for extended minutes, but doesn’t expect the starting job to be gifted to him upon arrival. Ironically, I think Gafford might’ve been a better fit for them than the Mavericks. but, most of the names we know aren’t going to want to play third big minutes. After the year he just had, I would put Hartenstein on that list of people I would expect to be less than thrilled to go experiment in OKC.

(06-01-2024, 10:07 AM)mvossman Wrote: I’m not ready to give up on Exum yet either. He did some really good things for us during the regular season. Brunson struggled his first playoffs as well, and I’m not sure there isn’t still an injury issue. Would like to see what both Hardy and Exum can do next season