(05-23-2024, 08:04 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I agree with all of those who say keeping DJJ is our most important priority this coming summer.  I was a DJJ champion this past offseason but I did not anticipate he would become a starter or a playoff hero.  He is now an integral part of our success.  

I think trading Gafford is crazy as he's literally a starter on a team in the Western Conference semifinals.  He may have struggled in the playoffs but he was terrific in the regular season for us.  I also want to keep Maxi because he's again showed what an outstanding contributor he can be in a playoff series. 

That leaves THJ as the obvious guy to send elsewhere to clear some salary cap.

I think the Hornets would be a good home for THJ and his veteran leadership.

I suggest the following trade:  THJ to the Hornets i.e. for Vasilije Micic and their 2nd round pick (#42 overall).  Micic has two years left on his deal but it's split over two seasons so it would save us around $8 million in cap space this coming summer.  The 42nd pick would receive a fairly low contract of around $1.4 million per year which I believe would also save us some money relative to a vet minimum veteran.  I don't understand how everyone calculates salary cap machinations but I believe these moves would allow us to offer DJJ something between $9 and 10 million per year this off-season.  I think that is a number that might possibly allow us to keep him.

Micic would slot in as a useful 3rd point guard if Kyrie or Luka isn't available.    

We would need Hardy to become our top bench scorer in this scenario.  

I believe this would free up enough money to bring back DJJ.  Especially on a 1 plus 1 deal with the 2nd-year being a player option.  

Please get this post to Nico and Dennis Lindsay.  Thank you for your service.

(05-23-2024, 08:45 AM)F Gump Wrote: Micic is an interesting name, but not sure he would be a good fit. Good passer, but meh-to-poor in shooting efficiency. He's not a good shooter on 3s, not a good defender. Good assist guy. Exum is probably a better fit on both ends of the court. Micic would probably need way more minutes than the Mavs have to offer, too..

If CHA decides to re-sign Bridges (or to SNT him, with similar salary coming back), they won't have cap room to do a THJ-Micic swap.

"I believe this would free up enough money to bring back DJJ. "...Maybe? If CHA did have cap room, that swap would give the Mavs about 8.5-9.0M in room to sign DJJ.

(05-23-2024, 09:18 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I assume the Hornets will want to bring back Bridges as they've already accepted the bad publicity for playing him last season.  It seems like my proposal will not work under likely circumstances.

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of teams who look like good THJ fits.  I think we have to hope Orlando believes in him or the Pistons are willing to accept him for some 2nd-round picks.   Maybe something like THJ to Orlando, Joe Ingles to Detroit and cap space to Dallas would work.  We'd throw a couple 2nd-rounders to the Pistons in that situation.

(05-23-2024, 10:21 AM)mvossman Wrote: The Timmy options are short.  I think Orlando or Detroit are the only likely trade partners.  If DJJ ends up costing the full MLE and Timmy is the way to get there I think our options (in order of my preference) are:

Send Timmy + first for Grimes
Send Timmy + 2nd(s) for air
Stretch waive Timmy

(05-23-2024, 10:21 AM)mvossman Wrote: The Timmy options are short.  I think Orlando or Detroit are the only likely trade partners.  If DJJ ends up costing the full MLE and Timmy is the way to get there I think our options (in order of my preference) are:

Send Timmy + first for Grimes
Send Timmy + 2nd(s) for air
Stretch waive Timmy

(05-23-2024, 10:34 AM)omahen Wrote: How about THJ and Green for Bruce Brown? Only saves some 5 mil, but brings in another very valuable rotation player that is probably better than either THJ or Green. Perhaps we give them our Canadian to free enough money.

(05-23-2024, 10:34 AM)F Gump Wrote: "The Timmy options are short. " ...You may be right, but what happens in the playoffs going forward will have a real bearing on his value. It may not end up as low as we fear. Cross your fingers.

As for the SW option, while it's always available, it doesn't get to full MLE money for DJJ (instead, somewhere around 8.7 - 9.0M, maybe?). That might be enough or it might mandate another move, raising the "price" even further.

There's a certain point at which DJJ may have to be willing to meet in the middle, so that signing him doesn't require gutting the team of needed depth.

(05-23-2024, 06:50 AM)F Gump Wrote:  
Duly noted.

Let me add - my major area of disagreement with your thoughts is that that I think you completely fail to credit the importance of Gafford to both the Mavs in general, and also to Lively. I'm seeing a Mavs team that overall is now turning games into a war, and wear down the opponent. Even one as big as Minny. It's a different style but one in which the net effect works in the playoffs (think Miami, as a good example), where there are fewer whistles, and it also complements Luka's ability to be a physical force on offense and consistently create half-court offense when games are in grind-it-out mode.

Gafford is more physical than Lively, which you see as a negative, but I think that it instead is a positive, and not just while Gafford is on the floor but for the full 48 minutes. The physicality of Gafford, banging on the opponent big men when Lively is not in the game, softens them up. How long have we been wishing for a physical presence? If you take Gafford out of the equation, there is no longer the same 48-minute grind wearing down the other team. What you see as easily dispensible, replaceable, and an unneeded luxury is something I believe is integral to the overall product and priced reasonably.

In addition, I think your mindset that Gafford is somehow holding Lively back is the opposite of the truth. Not only does Gafford's play make Lively's more effective, it also allows Lively to play with more freedom (fouls), with more than enough talent on deck should either have issues with fouls or injury. Minutes can be adjusted as needed. I agree that Lively is the better and more impactful center, but part of what is making him that good is the ability to spell him and help him with Gafford as needed. And Gafford hasn't even been through camp with the team, which is a path to even bigger things for team-player, and is young enough to grow his game as well.

As for where Kleber fits, it's hard to depend on him, but he's a great piece when he's healthy. His versatility is valuable, as a potential change-of-pace center when one might be needed, but also a great solution to spell PJW at PF. But all of that works way better when there is plenty of talent to man C in a strong way without him (which is Gafford, not Powell!). If only he can be healthy.

(05-23-2024, 10:44 AM)F Gump Wrote: None of that does anything useful re DJJ - even with DP included, it barely gets more than TxMLE for DJJ. Maybe 6M or so..

And while I'd rather have Brown than THJ or Green, I don't like him for 23M at all. I suspect that Brown is more likely to get waived than traded, frankly, unless TOR is willing to take an ugly contract.

(05-23-2024, 12:20 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Overpaid players are the kiss of death for modern roster-building.

(05-23-2024, 11:40 AM)F Gump Wrote: KL, I did not read your other comments (I don't read every thread in the forum). So all I knew was that you thought that Mavs rebounding vs Minny was a hopeless cause, even with Gafford's contributions (and my belief is that this is a rebounding-defense type of team now, playing physically and aggressively in those areas).

I don't see Gafford's weaknesses as things that make him undesirable. Like with all players, there's pluses, minuses, and whether his combo is more helpful or hurtful to the overall result.

I agree Lively is closer to the ideal (Ty Chandler). But it takes many good players to win big. And let's not overlook that when the Mavs added Gafford, they already had Lively and were still struggling in various ways, including an overall weakness at the center position.

As for Green, I'm hopeful he can be better, and valuable. I'd rather keep him, everything else being equal. But who knows - there are lots of moving parts to solving the roster-building equation this summer, and he has to be borderline if we're honest about what he's providing.

(05-23-2024, 08:24 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: I hope Gafford and Lively have long Mavs careers together. Gafford is important to our success. His physical presence and high energy are really helpful. We've finally found a recipe for winning literally any style of basketball with the current roster. We have to keep all the key pieces next year to be able to continue to do so and that includes Gafford. The front office has to find a way to keep DJJ. That's what they get paid to do. Lively and some random backup wouldn't have us in this position right now in the WCF's with a legit shot at a title. Lively is amazing with a chance to be special, but I think both are needed.

(05-23-2024, 06:00 PM)Knutsen Wrote: Let‘s not forget that Chandler could only be Chandler because of Haywood and Mahinmi, because he could go all out all the time and didn’t have to hold back, neither energywise nor foulwise.