DAL OFFSEASON: Trade & FA | Mavs "mostly done...but you never know." - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: DAL OFFSEASON: Trade & FA | Mavs "mostly done...but you never know." (/showthread.php?tid=565) Pages:
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RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 06:41 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Stolen from another board I read: Don't you think it's like NYK just doesn't pick up his team option? Knicks will be under the cap so I imagine the trade Dallas would want would be Wright + pick swap for Frank in this scenario. Knicks would get a player upgrade and a better pick. I think Mavs would be able to get a better deal though for #18 which is a pretty valuable pick imo. Frank is like a flyer type. If I could get Frank just for JJ straight up that's a move I like. I wouldn't waste #18 in a trade-down just to get off of Wright's money and take a flyer on Frank. (09-21-2020, 12:12 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: Sorry guys, I stand corrected, I am still out on trading Maxi for OPJ. Ya there's no way I would do Maxi for OPJ. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - Kammrath - 09-21-2020 (09-20-2020, 11:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: @Kammrath what do the abacus dudes say about Aaron Gordon? ORPM... 19-20: -1.05 18-19: -0.79 17-18: +1.83 DRPM... 19-20: +2.02 18-19: +1.11 17-18: +0.86 On/Off O... 19-20: +4.7 18-19: +2.9 17-18: +4.0 On/Off D... 19-20: -4.6 18-19: +0.8 17-18: +0.9 I think interpreting Gordon's numbers is REALLY tricky. A quick couple of examples without getting into more detail than I have time for: 1) Fultz to ME was the clear defensive weak link on the team and AG played 1300 of his 2000 mins with him last year (and the team D sucked when they were together). Augustin was SO MUCH better than Fultz on D and in the 658 mins AG played with him the team D was GREAT. 2) Isaac was a defensive beast for ORL and so were Bamba and Iwundu. AG looked good with Bamba and Isaac but didn't with Iwundu. Overall point: AG's data is really messy to me and it is hard to get a handle of all the weird variables on the ORL squad. My opinion? I think AG can be a plus on BOTH sides of the ball, but has also shown that he can be a big minus on both sides of the ball. I think scheme, fit, effort, and supporting players around him make a huge difference. I for one am largely in the AG camp, IF the Mavs think he would buy into RC's way of doing things. I love AG's potential to be a two way impact player in the right situation and if he can be selfless. (09-21-2020, 08:25 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Ya there's no way I would do Maxi for OPJ. I would want to hang on to Maxi if at all possible, but I would need to know more details about a deal centered on OPJ and Maxi before I say "no way." RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 09-21-2020 Man I like OPJ but I am surprised this board would part with Maxi. OPJ is a good player but expiring and injury-prone. Maxi's contract is a thing of beauty. There are plenty of teams imo that could use him as their small-ball center. I would peg his value as worth like a mid-round 1st round pick and I would rather have him than #18 all things being equal just bc he is a known quantity. Mavs should be able to add to this roster without taking important pieces. OPJ is good but can you get a wing in his ballpark without giving up assets? I would argue you can. I would love A Gordon but I am not getting my hopes up as the Mavs are all in on 2021 cap space. You would have to shed multiple contracts like Wright and Curry to make the money work and I don't think they Mavs will do that. Furthermore I expect the Mavs to completely dump Wright's money this summer to free up net 8 mil or so in 2021 so that they have that max spot fully open (or really close). RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - Kammrath - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 10:47 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: OPJ is good but can you get a wing in his ballpark without giving up assets? I would argue you can. Do you have an example of this? I struggle to find anything close to what I think OPJ offers on the court. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 10:57 AM)Kammrath Wrote:(09-21-2020, 10:47 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: OPJ is good but can you get a wing in his ballpark without giving up assets? I would argue you can. So not apples to apples but in totality you are looking for an athletic wing. OPJ's biggest issue is his recent injury history which is severe. I think that alone is reason not to give up any major asset. There are other wings available through trade like Kelly Oubre and FA. I like Justin Holiday as a guy that you could get that won't cost a lot. There are young guys like RHJ and DJJ you could get. Jae Crowder is playing well and Miami is going to have a tough time keeping him as they want 2021 space. I would expect them to try to get as much of a 2020 1-yr raise as they can since they have his bird rights. There are any number of guys of varying quality so you have to consider what you are getting in terms of production, contract status and what you are giving up to get the player. With that in mind I just don't think OPJ gives you enough over other options to warrant letting go of a key piece like Maxi. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - Jason Terry - 09-21-2020 (09-20-2020, 07:57 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:Great post. Yes, optionality is a key feature of plan have it both ways. And THj fits that plan well. We will keep an eye on FA 2021 cap room, but i don’t think we pass on quality players that eat into that space(someone like DJJ for full multi year MLE). We would just deal with moving contracts for Giannis when it comes. I think we see Wright and 18 moved soon in trade and it would be easy to move Powells contract to make max room. It’s not something we need to do pre-Giannis saying yes to us.(09-20-2020, 01:33 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Should be noted that OG recently changed from Octagon to Klutch KP for Giannis makes a ton of sense and many national guys have mentioned this. The space saved for FA 2021 could be used to round out the team around Luka and Giannis. This option would only make sense for us if next season was disappointing for both teams RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 09-21-2020 I don't know that Crowder would be cheap, really, probably overpaid, when the dust clears. But, he'd be a fit, imo. The only think I'm totally sure about is that I don't want to add players without any playoff experience. At least, not players counted on to be in the rotation. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - Mavs2019 - 09-21-2020 (09-20-2020, 10:40 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote:Under Spoelstra, the Heat have always had this super active swarming defense, that you can only beat with disciplined controlled ball movement. That´s why we and the Spurs beat them. For these young inexperienced guys in the East, it´s a major problem, even without the talent of Bron, Wade and Bosh on the current Heat.(09-20-2020, 10:28 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(09-20-2020, 10:23 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I think THJ is okay on the ball but one of the worst pick and roll and team defenders in the league. No one on the roster misses more rotations. In two of the early bubble game threads I posted some video breakdown. Sadly I cannot find it right now. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 11:35 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don't know that Crowder would be cheap, really, probably overpaid, when the dust clears. But, he'd be a fit, imo. I don't think cheap but gettable (by someone other than the Heat). It's hard to predict. I think the Heat can offer him 175% of his current salary (correct me if I am wrong) for 1 yr which would put him at around 13 mil for 1 yr. Teams could try to steal him away for MLE level starting at 10 mil/yr and add multiple years to the deal. It's hard to pinpoint his value but it seems plausible that he will get 10 mil+/yr this offseason, the question would be just how many years attached? At any rate I don't think the Mavs will be able to get him bc his price will be too high. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 09-21-2020 (09-20-2020, 07:57 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Plan: Have-It-Both-Ways I have one problem with this plan. It can only work in conditions, where everything is known or where you have multiple offers on the table. I am not sure this is how reality works. For example: you receive an offer of Gordon+Aminu for THJ+Jackson straight up. Do you pull the trigger or say no, I am only doing deals for expiring salaries? Or if Cleveland offers Osman for Jackson and future second? Fortunately for us, most of the deals we are discussing here are expiring anyway (09-21-2020, 12:06 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I think the Heat can offer him 175% of his current salary (correct me if I am wrong) Nope, they have his bird rights, so they can offer him as much as they want RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 09-21-2020 Re: "someone like DJJ for full multi year MLE)" I am not sure how much he will cost but even a smaller contract could steal him away from Miami who wants clean books in 2021. If Mavs moved off of Wright's money and could get DJJ on a value contract less than what Wright would have cost then I think it's at least a possibility. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 11:25 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: OPJ's biggest issue is his recent injury history which is severe.That's why such a good player is available to be had. The injuries are not serious though. He had a shoulder injury 56 games into the 18-19 season that he recovered from. Had a sprained ankle and needed 6 stitches in his mouth early this season, he recovered from that. Then he had a foot bruise that he was getting ready to come back from this season before COVID-19 hit. Before those minor setbacks he had seasons of 77 games in 17-18, 80 games in 16-17, 75 games in 15-16, and 74 games in 14-15. That's hardly a recipe for being labeled injury prone and none of those injuries are ones that are gameplay debilitating. He's a 40% 3 pt shooter on 3.3 attempts/game for his career which includes poor shooting and low attempts in his first 3 years. He's a "guard the other team's best player" defender (1-3, could get away with the 4 if the player is another wing) with lock-down capability. He's 27 years old, not really sure what there is to not like about him. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 12:08 PM)omahen Wrote: Sorry, I should have clarified. For sure Heat *can* offer him whatever they want but they won't bc they aren't going to eat into 2021 space. So even a 2 yr deal over 20 mil will have them out of the running. (09-21-2020, 12:21 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: He's a 40% 3 pt shooter on 3.3 attempts/game for his career which includes poor shooting and low attempts in his first 3 years. He's a "guard the other team's best player" defender (1-3, could get away with the 4 if the player is another wing) with lock-down capability. He's 27 years old, not really sure what there is to not like about him. What you call minor setbacks I call missing major time over 3 seasons. I like OPJ as a target but I am not willing to give up Maxi. Salary matching could be an issue without THJ and I don't see how Mavs can include picks with THJ's opt-in status. All that being said if we can get OPJ without giving up a Maxi or Seth type asset I am open to it. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 12:22 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: So even a 2 yr deal over 20 mil will have them out of the running. Why? They can offer him 15 mil for one season, for example. He is not that old to seek his 4 year MLE deal next season RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - Jason Terry - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 10:47 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Man I like OPJ but I am surprised this board would part with Maxi. OPJ is a good player but expiring and injury-prone. Maxi's contract is a thing of beauty. There are plenty of teams imo that could use him as their small-ball center. I would peg his value as worth like a mid-round 1st round pick and I would rather have him than #18 all things being equal just bc he is a known quantity.Looking at Maxi i think it’s helpful to make comparisons between us and Miami. Here’s a team in the heat that have done everything right. Look at Kendrick Nunn, DJJ and Duncan Robinson. Undrafted vs drafted doesn’t matter at all. They’re just good young players that were acquired. No difference between them and DFS and Maxi in regards to how they were acquired. Yes, Maxi is older, but that doesn’t matter. He only has 3 years in the league, which is fewer than DJJ who is also in the late bloomer category. Speaking of DJJ and DFS.......it’s not surprising that the finalists to sign both of these undrafted FA’s were Dallas and Miami. To me our drafted/developed players are Luka, Brunson, Curry, Maxi and DFS. When making trades i think we should keep that in mind. We have all these guys locked up for years on team friendly deals too RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 12:21 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: That's why such a good player is available to be had. I am not really sure I understand the logic. What would be the Chicago motivation to move him? He is basically their only wing. His contract is expiring so who cares if he is overpaid. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 12:22 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: What you call minor setbacks I call missing major time over 3 seasons.Why do you guys keep saying 3 seasons? Can we all please read the information correctly? It's been 2 seasons starting with a shoulder injury the season before last at 56 games. I outlined his injuries above and none of them are such a big issue that you label him injury prone. Sure, he's had a rash of injuries this season after coming back from the shoulder injury, I don't see that as a big deal at all, esp with the nature o fthe injuries not hindering his ability to get back 100%. (09-21-2020, 12:28 PM)omahen Wrote:All of this started with articles out of Chi saying pretty much their whole roster is for sale, including Lauri, OPJ and Lavine. As well as fan unrest about their team.(09-21-2020, 12:21 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: That's why such a good player is available to be had. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - Jason Terry - 09-21-2020 (09-21-2020, 12:21 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Re: "someone like DJJ for full multi year MLE)" I am not sure how much he will cost but even a smaller contract could steal him away from Miami who wants clean books in 2021. If Mavs moved off of Wright's money and could get DJJ on a value contract less than what Wright would have cost then I think it's at least a possibility.And if it comes down to it we could always trade him. Any contract of $10 million or less is easy to move. That’s why i don’t think we should get all caught up on opening a max slot THIS offseason. Bring in the best guys we can(without getting crazy on adding to 2021) and only AFTER a Giannis yes do we make the tough decisions on who gets traded. Only then would we consider trading from the core to make it all fit. Last summer showed us it’s easy to maneuver if you’re close RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 09-21-2020 I have a screw plan powder, let's compete now proposal. 1. Huge three team trade OKC: Powell, THJ, Jackson, Phi first rounder (save 7 mil in season 1, more in season 2) Phi: Paul, Curry (they don't increase salary, get two much better fitting pieces) Dal: Harris, Richardson, Scott 2. Sign Burke for part of MLE, #18, #31 3. Dump Wright (plus future seconds) for better fitting piece, lets say Snell Harris is hugely overpaid but a good third option. Richardson is a good fourth option. Should be a very good starting five and potent bench, with a couple of cheap youngsters. Fill the rest of the spots with ring chasing vet min contracts. Luka, Brunson, #31 Richardson, Burke DFS, #18, Snell Harris, Maxi KP, WCS, Boban RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & Free Agency (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart - Jason Terry - 09-21-2020 1. WCS has been at the mavs facility a good bit. I think it shows that he will opt in to his player option and be part of next years roster 2. Lamarcus Aldridge has been using our facility for years. I don’t see any way we could salary match for him or why we even would, but there’s a chance he could get bought out by the spurs after the deadline if they don’t get a decent offer. Wouldn’t be surprised if he came to us There should be so many cheap bigs available we should definitely lean towards a guard or wing in trade |