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+--- Thread: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M (/showthread.php?tid=1128)
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - Scott41theMavs - 08-02-2021
Completely agree with cow here - you don't pay a sixth man that kind of money, and if you choose to start Timmy and Luka in the same starting lineup, you're choosing not to compete seriously.
I would have been fine with something rising from $13M, so this is $3M/year too rich for me. Oh well. Spilt milk now.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - KillerLeft - 08-02-2021
(08-02-2021, 11:00 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Completely agree with cow here - you don't pay a sixth man that kind of money, and if you choose to start Timmy and Luka in the same starting lineup, you're choosing not to compete seriously.
Oh, he's going to start. That seems clear. Otherwise, why would he come back? He has told us he prefers to start every chance he gets.
I think he's a good starter, myself.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - cow - 08-02-2021
(08-02-2021, 11:05 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think he's a good starter, myself.
Next to Luka? Going to need to outscore opponents I guess. Have to hope KP returns to being a + defender also if there is any hope of this team being average defensively.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - KillerLeft - 08-02-2021
(08-02-2021, 11:17 PM)cow Wrote: Next to Luka? Going to need to outscore opponents I guess. Have to hope KP returns to being a + defender also if there is any hope of this team being average defensively.
If KP is on the floor, the Mavs' defense will be bad. That's my take.
If, somehow, KP improves defensively, that will mean that the Mavs' center is not their worst defender and I think we'll suddenly have a much higher opinion of several defenders who have been here, Hardaway included. And actually, I thought Hardaway had a decent defensive season and a GOOD defensive series against the Clippers. He's a MUCH better defender than Josh Richardson, for example. Far from the albatross he's made out to be here, though I would never call him a stopper, obvs.
On offense, he and Luka have always fit together like a dream. I even thought he added to his off-the-bounce game significantly last year, improving it over the previous season.
I get that he's not a perfect player, but he's a good starter, imo.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - Kammrath - 08-02-2021
(08-02-2021, 11:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I thought Hardaway had a decent defensive season and a GOOD defensive series against the Clippers. He's a MUCH better defender than Josh Richardson, for example.
TRUTH.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - fifteenth - 08-02-2021
(08-02-2021, 11:00 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Completely agree with cow here - you don't pay a sixth man that kind of money, and if you choose to start Timmy and Luka in the same starting lineup, you're choosing not to compete seriously.
I would have been fine with something rising from $13M, so this is $3M/year too rich for me. Oh well. Spilt milk now.
Scott, you define THJ as a sixth man. It's not like it's some agreed upon thing. Some see him as a starter. So you can't just say "because he's a sixth man" as if it's axiomatic.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - Scott41theMavs - 08-02-2021
(08-02-2021, 11:50 PM)fifteenth Wrote: Scott, you define THJ as a sixth man. It's not like it's some agreed upon thing. Some see him as a starter. So you can't just say "because he's a sixth man" as if it's axiomatic.
I think THJ's (lack of) defense defines him as a sixth man.
Things aren't as bad if we trade KP before the season. Then you've created a situation in which you can have three plus defenders in the starting lineup, and perhaps Luka and THJ could be good enough with effort to prevent untenable defensive bleeding. But as is, unless we're going to fire Kidd before the season and hire Mike Dan Tony, then THJ is a sixth man. Axiomatic or whatever you wanna call it.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - Kammrath - 08-03-2021
(08-02-2021, 11:55 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I think THJ's (lack of) defense
THJ was +3.9 defensively against the Clips.
In the regular season he was -3.8 defensively (-2.2 post All Star break)....BUT he played heavy minutes with Luka, JRich, and KP who were all WORSE (and therefore could have been dragging him down).
I really think THJ was not the weak link defensively you seem to think he was.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - fifteenth - 08-03-2021
(08-02-2021, 11:55 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I think THJ's (lack of) defense defines him as a sixth man.
Things aren't as bad if we trade KP before the season. Then you've created a situation in which you can have three plus defenders in the starting lineup, and perhaps Luka and THJ could be good enough with effort to prevent untenable defensive bleeding. But as is, unless we're going to fire Kidd before the season and hire Mike Dan Tony, then THJ is a sixth man. Axiomatic or whatever you wanna call it.
Well, I think he's a better defender than he gets credit for. I think he's a starter. In fact, he's been a better starter than 6th man.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - KillerLeft - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 12:02 AM)Kammrath Wrote: THJ was +3.9 defensively against the Clips.
In the regular season he was -3.8 defensively (-2.2 post All Star break)....BUT he played heavy minutes with Luka, JRich, and KP who were all WORSE (and therefore could have been dragging him down).
I really think THJ was not the weak link defensively you seem to think he was.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media3.giphy.com/media/xThuWl6tp6rUjAxuKc/giphy.gif)
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - fifteenth - 08-03-2021
And an axiom is something that is self evident, that doesn't require proof.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - cow - 08-03-2021
I guess if you squint, you could call THJ an average defender. I'd recommend glasses, but sure.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - fifteenth - 08-03-2021
When using the eye test you can definitely come away with different conclusions based on which pair of eyes you use
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - KillerLeft - 08-03-2021
I get it. We were all hoping for a shiny, new toy. The Mavs, to this point, haven't been able to get that done, and though I tend to give a first year GM working with a month of prep during a pretty bad free agency class (at least when it comes down to star power) a little slack, I think it's more than valid to call this a failure from a bird's eye view of the time from Luka's draft night until this summer, when he's signing his rookie-max-extension.
But...
THJ has been GOOD here. Better this past year than the one before, and FAR better than he ever was in NY, or for that matter, than he was in Atlanta before he got that "terrible contract."
I am really surprised he didn't get a raise, tbqh, and I'm pretty confident that he could have had he shopped himself more aggressively. To me, this screams that both he and the Mavs believe he's part of the core here and both are happy about it. I like this move a lot, especially when viewed independently of the rest of our disappointment over the past few seasons.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - cow - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 12:09 AM)fifteenth Wrote: When using the eye test you can definitely come away with different conclusions based on which pair of eyes you use
I use my mind's eye.
I might not love the contract and the player frustrates me, but I do love THJ. He wants to be here and works is ass off. Could be worse.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - KillerLeft - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 12:06 AM)fifteenth Wrote: And an axiom is something that is self evident, that doesn't require proof.
Right. Such as: "DFS is Mavericks royalty" right?
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - fifteenth - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 12:20 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Right. Such as: "DFS is Mavericks royalty" right?
Exactly!
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - cow - 08-03-2021
You guys better not be goofing on my DFS love. It's been a rough day for the cowster.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - KillerLeft - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 12:24 AM)cow Wrote: You guys better not be goofing on my DFS love. It's been a rough day for the cowster.
OK,
A) NEVER!
and
B) It's MY DFS love, broseph. I'll magnanimously offer you a seat at the "founder's table" during our bi-annual meetings, but don't act like I'm jumping onto your train.
RE: FA: THJ to DAL for 4 yrs/$74M - audiosway - 08-03-2021
(08-02-2021, 11:05 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Oh, he's going to start. That seems clear. Otherwise, why would he come back? He has told us he prefers to start every chance he gets.
I think he's a good starter, myself.
I agree. I think he's a good starter at the 2. I think this was a good offseason for the Mavs actually. It seems that they have prioritized players and didn't wait for ones they thought weren't interested. They quickly moved on and got the guys they targeted. I would call that a huge success to prior years of them waiting around and hoping then picking up pieces on budget contracts of whatever is left.
And yeah, I see THJ as a good starter on a contender. He reminds me of a JET but as actually the size of a typical 2 guard. He can be a streaky shooter but that's the reason he isn't getting $30 million per year. Good contract for a very solid player.