2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682) Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
|
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - dirkfansince1998 - 03-07-2021 (03-07-2021, 04:39 AM)MAVS-SLO Wrote: Sometimes it's better to do nothing, than do the stupidity. And most of these trade ideas are stupidity. From trading KP for a bunch of role players, to a trading for a old injury prone player on a max contract. Fair to disagree with some of the proposed trades but at least acknowledge that most of them aren´t about the things that you point out. Love was discussed as an option to add picks, prospects or additional rotation players. The oncourt value he might have is not the main piece of the trade. Whatever the Mavs could get in addition because they absorbed his contract is. Same for any KP trade. We don´t know how other teams/GMs think of him and his contract but trading him to get assets that could be used in a trade or to create more capspace is a legit option. (03-07-2021, 04:39 AM)MAVS-SLO Wrote: PG: Luka - Brunson - Burke. Not really sure what to make of this. Starting with the positions of certain players. KP not being listed as the starting center. Luka could potentially play any position from 1-4 on defense. Richardson is more of a SG than both THJ and Green. In most matchups he defends the opposing PG. Not really sure why the Mavs should be worried about DFS or Brunsons contract. With Luka´s max extension they won´t have any capspace anyway. More about the luxury tax line but if Cuban isn´t willing to pay for a potential contender the Mavs are screwed anyway. With bird rights the Mavs can match any contract offer for DFS or Brunson. If they want to stay in Dallas money shouldn´t be the problem. (03-07-2021, 04:39 AM)MAVS-SLO Wrote: This must be priorite in a trade or free agency. Turner would be perfect here alongside KP. You already mentioned the lack of assets. Not sure how the Mavs add Turner without any. Powell and Iwundu have negative value. Johnson is expiring. Mavs have three more weeks to turn him into something more useful. Don´t expect a miracle. If the Mavs trade Johnson for a longer contract they won´t have capspace in the summer but that´s probably the best way to get anything useful in return. Other posters are mentioning trades for players like KLove for a reason. That´s the kind of trade a team should do if it wants to add future assets. (03-07-2021, 04:39 AM)MAVS-SLO Wrote: So what we should do?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - MAVS-SLO - 03-07-2021 (03-07-2021, 05:31 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Fair to disagree with some of the proposed trades but at least acknowledge that most of them aren´t about the things that you point out. Love was discussed as an option to add picks, prospects or additional rotation players. The oncourt value he might have is not the main piece of the trade. Whatever the Mavs could get in addition because they absorbed his contract is. Most of trade ideas are click bait. They found 4-5 versions of trade for every single player in NBA. I'm not against trading for a player. I'm against trading for a players who will destroy our cap space for 3-4 years in the future. And that's the thing with Love, Horford... I't would be different story if they would be on expiring contract. And i'm also against giving assest's for a few months rental players. It's ok if they're on expiring contracts but i wouldn't give assests for a players who would just walk to other team few months later (Lowry, Oladipo). Powell contract is disaster, we can all agree, but with trading for players mentioned (Love, Horford), we get just another version of Powell with 3 time bigger contract. And that completly destroy our cap space. Also, even if most of stars extended they're contracts there will be plenty of interesting players in free agency. In 10 - 20 mil. range. I listed KP on a 4 beacuse of his unique style of play. He is a little bit stock between 4 - 5 and we need to find a player to pair with him. And i listed him on 4 beacuse of teams with stronger centers destroying us 2 year a row. Similar thing is with J-Rich. Yes we are in lack of assests and i don't expect miracles. I would be glad if we could somehow turn Powell, Johnson and Iwundu in something useful, but i thing some of the names could become more problematic than currently trio. I would prefer if this trio could be used in a trades where we also get something useful with normal contract. That's the probably biggest difference i forgot to wrote. Also, i wouldn't be against trading for some reclamation projects. Yes, Turner value is high but i think that's the reason we should wait until the summer and free agency before trading for a players with longer contracts. If some guards or forwards (like Lonzo) become available that easily could add J-Rich (if he opts in) to become trade option to offer to Pacers. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - omahen - 03-07-2021 (03-07-2021, 05:31 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Love was discussed as an option to add picks, prospects or additional rotation players. I totally agree with everything you wrote. My opinion about Love discussion - Cleveland is not in an asset giving away business, they are in asset gathering business. Absolutely no way they would pay anything to get rid of Love. They would expect something. I guess his situation is sort of like Griffin. Can't prove he is worth anywhere near his contract which runs for two more seasons after this one. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - dirkfansince1998 - 03-07-2021 (03-07-2021, 07:29 AM)omahen Wrote: I totally agree with everything you wrote. Agree. Cavs are rebuilding. They are still collecting assets. Sexton, Garland and Allen. Nice young core but not enough. More likely that they try to turn one of the vets (Nance) into additional picks. But it´not just about the Cavs. With the shortened season and the play in tournament it is really hard to identify buyers/sellers. Especially in the east where teams like the Cavs (14-22) or Wizards (14-20) are still in the playoff race. Personally I think the Magic (13-23) are the team to watch. After years of mediocrity they might reach the point where a rebuild is the only remaining option. West is super competitive. Only teams that might start a fire sale are the Rockets and Wolves. Pelicans, Thunder and Kings might be willing to trade some of their "win now" vets. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - Mavs2021 - 03-07-2021 (03-07-2021, 07:29 AM)omahen Wrote: I totally agree with everything you wrote. Pretty much. I also respect that the Cavs owner is not willing to help contenders or shitty performing veterans with buyouts. He will rather eat the money and it helps his negotiating power. I don't think he'll buyout Drummond either. But we could have had Allen and Prince, too. Well if we had any tradeable 1st round picks and I don't blame Porzingis for that. I blame the previous 10 years of totally pathetic asset management.All they needed to do is eat one fucking year of Igoudala or Harkless and they could have turned that into a Young Tyson, but this was just Mavs(insertrandomnumber) yeling at the clouds about another small isolated event like drafting Satnam. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - StepBackJay - 03-07-2021 (03-06-2021, 09:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: If the Mavericks trade for Kevin Love I am going to lose my mind. be prepared. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - DanSchwartzgan - 03-07-2021 (03-06-2021, 06:12 PM)chaparral Wrote: Would we still be moving KP? I like the GS idea for KP better then the Atl trade if we are doing this Love thing. Hmmm. I've got two issues with doing the Love thing on a stand-alone basis. 1. I don't like the defensive fit with KP. 2. If we retain THJ and JRich, we will be pretty tight to the tax and probably won't use the full MLE (then the next season we'd be WAY into the tax). I don't think Cleveland is going to pay to trade you Love. Maybe it is THJ/Powell as the Cleveland writer indicated. Maybe they add a second (Cleveland has a ton of seconds in 22, though I'm not sure another project really moves the needle for Dallas). I would probably try to swap Iwundu for Windler who might have more value some day as a bench specialist...but I digress. To your point, what if the Love deal fixes some of the issues with a GS deal for Wiseman. If you just trade for Wiseman, you are probably taking a step backwards today but betting on his upside. Love can replace all of what KP does offensively (and is similarly a health risk), but you would be simultaneously developing a potential star who would pair up with Love quite well. Forget all the other moving parts...would you do KP/Powell for Wiseman/Love? I would, but I see Wiseman turning into something special. The three team construct makes dealing with GS easier. You can do something based on Johnson/Powell going out (with KP) and Oubre coming back with Wiseman/Love. Or, you can follow along with what the Cleveland writer said and send out THJ instead of Johnson while bringing back Wiggins instead of Oubre. The latter saves GS a ton of LT and might get you some additional draft compensation. Wiggins and Love are both FA's the summer of 23. The extension for Wiseman kicks in in 24. If you do the Wiggins version it is: Wiseman/WCS (or MLE) Love/Maxi Wiggins/DFS JRich/Brunson Luka/Brunson If you do the Oubre version, simply move DFS back to starting SF and THJ to bench 3/2 as he is currently Wiseman/WCS (or MLE) Love/Maxi DFS/THJ JRich/THJ Luka/Brunson RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - StepBackJay - 03-07-2021 The thing I keep going back to is how can you add a significant upgrade to your. top 8 (guys that actually get PT) without giving up guys in your top 7? It usually means you are taking on money and/or giving up prospects and/or picks. Mavs don't really have picks, they do have a few prospects that may or may not have value and they definitely have the ability to take on money. So with Love if you are able to add him as the 8th guy (not necessarily in that order) then you have upgraded the team. It essentially bumps WCS out of a rotation spot most nights. Rick keeps his playoff rotations very tight so he is going to give most minutes to his top 7 which I already feel okay about. I think the 8th guy would also help us get to the playoffs. Thats why I am looking at guys like Love, Gallo, Hield, Horford, Reddick, Drummond - guys that either won't cost much or that you can get in the buyout market. I like Love bc he can score, rebound and pass. I think he has been mostly fake injured on the Cavs the last couple of years while they tank and he takes it easy until he eventually finds his way onto a good team. He knew what he was getting when he signed that big contract. Defense will not be amazing but let's see what it looks like on the court. As mentioned if KP eventually gets moved for Wiseman this type of move would help it not look like the Mavs are taking a step back this year. All things considered if I could have Love/Wiseman/Oubre and some future cap savings I probably like that better than what I am seeing right now. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - dirkfansince1998 - 03-07-2021 Slightly different topic: Will Richardsons opt in? Based on his performance so far he cannot expect a big payday and this is most likely going to be his last big contract. If he bets on himself he has the chance to improve his value next season. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - DanSchwartzgan - 03-07-2021 (03-07-2021, 10:12 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Slightly different topic: Will Richardsons opt in? Based on his performance so far he cannot expect a big payday and this is most likely going to be his last big contract. If he bets on himself he has the chance to improve his value next season. Simmons addressed this on his podcast with Tjarks recently. They both agreed he would become a free agent. It isn't that he's having the kind of year that improves his value. But, there is more money than players this summer. The likelihood is someone bites on a multi-year north of the MLE and that is better than a single year at about the same amount. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - dirkfansince1998 - 03-07-2021 Just to add even more unrealistic trades. Combining the Bagley, Hield and KP rumors: Porzingis + Johnson + Iwundu --> Hield + Bagley + Holmes + 21 1st + 23 1st (or 21 1st + 2 2nds, not sure about the value) RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - Chicagojk - 03-07-2021 I have almost no hope that there is a move the needle acquisition for the Mavs by the trade deadline. If one was available with most teams doing ok and a lot of suitors in the market, I think the Mavs would have to pay 1.50 on the dollar for a move. Do we even have a 1.50 offer besides taking on salary? So I am looking for a complimentary move either at the trade deadline or as a buyout. I want a big man who can do something our other bigs can't do. One that is a rotation piece. I was intrigued by the Larry Nance name, but it sounds like the asking price will be too high for my liking. Bjelinca and Holmes in Sacramento would both interest me, but with both being expiring I think we would be forced to give up an asset or two. Not sure if either are enough to do so. I don't know if he is available, but Mo Wagner from Washington would intrigue me. I was not a big fan of his in the draft, but he plays hard. Good size too. That type of player is who I would be sniffing around. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - chaparral - 03-07-2021 (03-07-2021, 08:54 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Hmmm. I've got two issues with doing the Love thing on a stand-alone basis. 1. I don't like the defensive fit with KP. 2. If we retain THJ and JRich, we will be pretty tight to the tax and probably won't use the full MLE (then the next season we'd be WAY into the tax). Can you work in another Schwartz guy like Drummond in a buyout to the Mavs on top of the 3 way trade. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - StepBackJay - 03-07-2021 Pretty sure this whole thing is a Schwartz generated article. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - michaeltex - 03-07-2021 (03-07-2021, 08:54 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Hmmm. I've got two issues with doing the Love thing on a stand-alone basis. 1. I don't like the defensive fit with KP. 2. If we retain THJ and JRich, we will be pretty tight to the tax and probably won't use the full MLE (then the next season we'd be WAY into the tax).I don't hate it, especially the Oubre version. Not sure the defense will improve, but this offensive lineup should give opposing coaches nightmares. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - Mavs03 - 03-07-2021 Atlanta trades John Collins and Tony Snell to Dallas for James Johnson, Josh Green, and future #1 Why for Atlanta? Collins wants a near max deal. Him and Trae are not exactly the best of friends. They drafted Collins replacement in Okongwu who actually makes more money than Collins currently. Atlanta gets 2 young assets in Green and a future #1 Why for Dallas? I think Collins and KP could form a formidable frontcourt. I like the Big 3 of Luka, KP, and Collins along with role players J-Rich and DFS. Our bench gets stronger with Kleber moving from the starting lineup. Snell is an expiring contract and is a lights out shooter. Luka J-Rich DFS Collins KP Brunson Snell THJ Kleber WCS Burke and Powell round out the bench That's a solid rotation. It's a very young team that could grow together and gel. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - Kammrath - 03-07-2021 (03-07-2021, 08:54 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Hmmm. I've got two issues with doing the Love thing on a stand-alone basis. 1. I don't like the defensive fit with KP. 2. If we retain THJ and JRich, we will be pretty tight to the tax and probably won't use the full MLE (then the next season we'd be WAY into the tax). If you successfully even get close to predicting a three team trade accurately your legendary status will go down in history! Your thinking makes so much sense....to me Love makes NO SENSE on this team unless something like the above unfolds. Then I am all in on Love. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - omahen - 03-07-2021 I don't believe KP will be traded but there is so much possibilities of fantasy trade, so much fun Sac: KP. Green Atl: Barnes, Sac 2021 unprotected FRP Dal: Haliburton, Collins, Snell Sacramento gets a star next to Fox and a young wing. Atlanta replace Collins with Barnes who is a decent small ball PF and add probably a very high FRP. Dallas gets the rookie they were trying to trade for and Collins. Now Mavs would just have to figure out what to do with the guard logjam and trade one of them for a big wing or center. In the meantime (by positions on defense): PG: Brunson, Haliburton SG: JRich, THJ SF: Luka, DFS PF: Collins, Johnson C: Kleber, WCS For the center spot we could perhaps go all in for Vucevic with Brunson, 2025, 2027 and Johnson as salary filler. Or Johnson+Powell+2027 FRP for Horford. I think he would be great in that line-up. Defensive general, not to demanding on offense, but capable. Still, we would have to trade one of the guards. RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - Kammrath - 03-07-2021 (03-07-2021, 03:21 PM)omahen Wrote: Haliburton You are just trying to make @"KillerLeft" happy.... RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - omahen - 03-07-2021 Not many ways to get to big three but Wall and his horrible contract could be one of the easiest. He should fit nicely next to Luka, sort of improved version of JRich. Johnson+Powell+JRich for Wall. |