DAL OFFSEASON: Trade & FA | Mavs "mostly done...but you never know." - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: DAL OFFSEASON: Trade & FA | Mavs "mostly done...but you never know." (/showthread.php?tid=565) Pages:
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RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - Mavsfan12 - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 12:14 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:(11-05-2020, 11:45 PM)chaparral Wrote:(11-05-2020, 11:23 PM)cjeter24 Wrote:(11-05-2020, 11:14 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: So.... everyone's out on Aaron Gordon? At one point, he was one of my favorite Mav targets. Not sure why AG has a following. It could easily be argued that Powell is a better player for this team. Not sure what Gordon has done to inspire desires to acquire him. He is pretty inefficient, not a particularly good defender, doesn't spread the floor well, and is a poor rebounder. There aren't a lot of redeeming qualities there. I do think he would be better here than he is for Orl, given a much better fit. Having to share the floor with Vuc is really a problem for him. That said, I would prefer Maxi at his 8M over AG at 19M. He is signed through 22, so he doesn't help with capspace. The proposed trade sends out Wright, but I don't see how this makes the mavs better and you end up with Powell/AG duplication. I could talk myself into not hating it if it were Powell instead of Maxi heading out and it was cap neutral. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | Season (Dec 22? 72 gms?) - SamStetz - 11-06-2020 (11-05-2020, 11:12 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: 1. Jrue...best fit next to LukaWhere does OPJ fit in here? RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | Season (Dec 22? 72 gms?) - cow - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 01:36 AM)SamStetz Wrote:(11-05-2020, 11:12 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: 1. Jrue...best fit next to LukaWhere does OPJ fit in here? 98.5 RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | Season (Dec 22? 72 gms?) - ClutchDirk - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 01:36 AM)SamStetz Wrote:Playing the 4 next to KP...(11-05-2020, 11:12 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: 1. Jrue...best fit next to LukaWhere does OPJ fit in here? https://twitter.com/CowboysTanking/status/1324580764407730176 RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | Season (Dec 22? 72 gms?) - KillerLeft - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 01:36 AM)SamStetz Wrote:(11-05-2020, 11:12 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: 1. Jrue...best fit next to LukaWhere does OPJ fit in here? I think OPJ is great, especially relative to some of the other options we've discussed. He fits well at the 4, and you get to audition him for a season while you search the landscape for the best way to apply your flexibility, which he doesn't ruin. If another KP situation comes up, you have a contract around which a deal can be formed, and who knows - you might end up liking him enough to bring him back at a lower number. But, I DON'T think he makes the team better immediately if you have to sacrifice THJ to bring him in. Now, if somehow they could get OPJ AND Hield, that's where the situation starts to get interesting. Not sure that's even possible, but I'd be interested in that. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - Mapka - 11-06-2020 @Omahen or any other supporter of a Tobis Harris trade. I will ignore his contract. It's just a nightmare and will be gone the moment we trade for him. So please tell me what kind of role will he play in our offense or defense. If I think about it, I see the following: Can't see him roll or just screen at a good enough level. Can't imaging any playmaking, that would benefit us. His spacing isn't good enough to make him a starter over any other player on our roster (Wright is gone here). Are we going to play him as a post-up guy? He won't guard any 1-3 on the perimeter. He won't be the 5. We tend to avoid to switch the small guards, but we are switching or blitzing Powell and Kleber often. I have no idea how Tobi would work in a zone. I see him on every player I'd like to hide Luka on. He would help on Zion, LeBron, Randle. I would take Aquamen over Hawkman all day. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - Mavs2019 - 11-06-2020 Also something to consider is that Harris has been on five teams already and the current one allegedly looking to get rid, too. It seems that Harris is a nice player in theory, but once you have him, you realize he´s just good-ish. Philly has two franchise talents in Embiid/Simmons, so if Harris is that 3rd guy, why are they (again allegedly) trying to move on from him. It´s not like they have a pathway to major capspace. If Cuban just can´t keep it in his pants for another 6 months, then take a chance on an expiring like Gobert, DeRozan, Drummond, LMA, OPJ or Hayward. Though usually with the Mavs they are not sniffing around, where all the rumours have them. The real targets are probably a bit more off the beaten path. Maybe the RFA class is where it´s really at: Markkanen, Isaac, Collins, Allen, Anunoby, Ball, Fultz, Trent Jr., Kennard, Nunn, Robinson, Kuzma, Bonga, Ferguson, Ntilikina. You can really pick and choose need from that class. It has a little bit of everything. You just need to know which owners will be very tight. Reinsdorf is notoriously tight. Does he really want to commit $110M to Markkanen during a pandemic? The best part is that, if you acquire them now, their caphold is so low that you can still get an impact FA in 2021. Those are the guys the Mavs should be looking at. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - omahen - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 03:20 AM)Mapka Wrote: @omahen or any other supporter of a Tobis Harris trade. As for offense, we play him spreading the floor with occasional post up. Even in his last season, which was a bit worse, he was very efficient. He was shooting 44 % on corner threes and 36 % overall on 5 attempts per game, so he is far from a bad shooter. And it is quite safe to say his looks will be better with Mavs than they were with Philly. This proves to me he can very efficiently spread the floor. He took 22 % of his shots at the rim and converted 66 % which is both good. He is taking a bit more mid range jumpers, but I am quite sure this will change with Mavs as they will be further pushing him out on the three point line. Defensively, he is guarding big SF or PF. I don't think we need to hide him on defense. Luka can take worst opponent on positions 1-3. (11-06-2020, 03:59 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: and the current one allegedly looking to get rid, too Where did you see that? The current team gave him his great contract, which is overpay. I never saw they actually want to get rid of him. It was purely fan speculation because of his contract. It is not his fault they gave him the max instead of Butler. Be aware 2019 situation a lot of guys got max but are not really max players. Situation that can easily happen again in 2021. (11-06-2020, 03:59 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: Gobert, DeRozan, Drummond, LMA, OPJ or Hayward All of these require matching contracts. Not to mention the assets needed to get them. So a big price to pay for couple of months rental. Even worse than trading for them in this offseason. Half of them (Drummond, LMA, DeRozan, Gobert) I wouldn't touch. (11-06-2020, 03:59 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: Markkanen, Isaac, Collins, Allen, Anunoby, Ball, Fultz, Trent Jr., Kennard, Nunn, Robinson, Kuzma, Bonga, Ferguson, Ntilikina I agree with the principle, but I don't think Markkanen fits on this team as he is poor mans KP. Isaac would be great, but is even bigger injury risk than KP and Orlando will demand a fortune for him. Atlanta will demand even bigger fortune for Collins due to his inflated numbers. Anunoby would be a nice role player in the Covington mould, but I think Toronto would match every reasonable offer and it is not reasonable to offer him north of 20 per (Toronto is not selling unless you offer a fortune). Trent and Robinson are in same category. Ball, Fultz are overrated and bad fit on Mavs imho. Kuzma, Bonga, Ferguson, Ntilikina, Allen are average and should not cost more than MLE level (half of them not more than half of MLE). This leaves Kennard, which I think can be traded for and could be nice, but is far from a third star. White, that you didn't mention, could be a nice fit, if SA wouldn't see Murray/White pairing as a long term solution. He would be my favorite in the class, but it is still a question, if he can be that third "star". OPJ - if we like him so much. Why not offer him something in the range of 80/4 and SnT him from Bulls? It makes more sense than trading for his expiring 27 mil. We can help them by taking some of their bad money like Young or Sato. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | Season (Dec 22? 72 gms?) - SleepingHero - 11-06-2020 (11-05-2020, 02:18 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(11-05-2020, 01:40 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Gobert/WCS/KP are the 1st, 20th and 29th best PLAYERS in the league in D-RPM. Yes, someone would have to cover the perimeter...especially on switches. But, there would be a highly rated shot blocker behind them at all times. I’m not sure we’ve seen that tried as there hasn’t ever been anything like KP and Gobert on the same team. That means the big on the perimeter doesn’t have to chase back to the basket. They can play fairly aggressive drop coverage and simply worry about 3 pointers as any player who goes around them will have a top shot blocker waiting for them. Im really late. But I think the Mavs can arguably be better than any other proposal (besides trading for Giannis) if they trade for Gobert and sign Dragic in the summer. Luka/Dragic/DFS/KP/Gobert is an elite lineup. Maxi was one of the better perimeter defenders too so the Mavs could roll out some serious size in Luka/DFS/Maxi/KP/Gobert. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - Mapka - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 04:15 AM)omahen Wrote:(11-06-2020, 03:20 AM)Mapka Wrote: @omahen or any other supporter of a Tobis Harris trade. So, back from watching some highlights (always dangerous). I can see your POV better now. He is a good player. I still think we need another piece beyond adding him. ? Luka DFS Tobi KP If you say Brunson becomes FVV or we add healthy Dragic with three years left with the MLE or we trade spares for Lowry too,or the trade send Assets to the Hawks and we geht Hayes... I can see it. I would want to have something like this first, before I go all in. It might be impossible after, because we are comited and seem desperate then. By the way, I don´t want to hide him on defense but Luka and that´s very often on the worse 3/4 and Tobi is just like always on the 4. (11-06-2020, 05:54 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Im really late. But I think the Mavs can arguably be better than any other proposal (besides trading for Giannis) if they trade for Gobert and sign Dragic in the summer. Luka/Dragic/DFS/KP/Gobert is an elite lineup. Maxi was one of the better perimeter defenders too so the Mavs could roll out some serious size in Luka/DFS/Maxi/KP/Gobert. I take Tobi here before I take Gorbert at the same price. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - omahen - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 05:56 AM)Mapka Wrote: I can see your POV better now. He is a good player. I still think we need another piece beyond adding him. I wrote that already, we have plenty of options to find that missing SG. We still have a lot of role players and picks to trade, sign him for MLE or draft him. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - ItsGoTime - 11-06-2020 3 team trade: 76ers get: Curry/Powell/Kleber/Wright Give: Harris/Thybulle/Korkmaz/2021 2nd (NYK) Bulls get: THJ/JJ/Lee (SnT to match)/Thybulle Give: OPJ/Sato/Young Mavs get: Harris/Korkmaz/OPJ/Sato/Young/2021 2nd (NYK) Luka/Brunson Sato/Korkmaz OPJ/DFS Harris/Young KP/WCS Let that group marinate for a year and make it to the 2nd or 3rd round in the playoffs, then contend thereafter. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - Mapka - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 06:01 AM)omahen Wrote:(11-06-2020, 05:56 AM)Mapka Wrote: I can see your POV better now. He is a good player. I still think we need another piece beyond adding him. To me it just seems more likely to find a fitting PF with the MLE/Draft/minor trade/Powell is able to become playable again way than to find a fitting playmaking seconary ballhandler. Or better everything I can see after THarris tradewise kills our depth. We would be Luka/~Lavine/DFS/THarris/KP + minimum players. €dit: one of Brunson, Kleber, Curry or MLE might be there too. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - Hypermav - 11-06-2020 Griffin, Kennard and swap firsts with Detroit. Draft Hayes or Haliburton at 7. Give 31 and Wright, Powell and THJ. Griffin expires 2022. Maybe Detroit thinks Griffin is worth more than a salary dump. Gives the Mavs two young players while Griffin could be really good when healthy this year. He would be very useful in the playoffs. Just a spitball, trade machine says it works but may be too Mavs centric. Cuz I'm a homer RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - Kammrath - 11-06-2020 RE: Gobert Just a couple observations about things I don't understand about the energy of people against Gobert (seems to be an extreme overreaction): 1) The Mavs defense this year was BAD, especially in the clutch, both on the perimeter AND in the interior (3s and layups killed the Mavs). The Mavs do NOT have a clear path to improve perimeter D unless Jrue is made available for the right price. You can improve D in one of two ways: get better on the perimeter (stopping 3s) or get better around the basket (stopping the layup drill). Adding Gobert makes you even better at defending the basket. Sure the perimeter D will have its weaknesses (like it already has, no change there!), but there will never be a layup line with Gobert/KP in the game. Teams will have to shoot from outside and that may beat the Mavs (but at least points in the paint and layups will not beat them). Even if Gobert or KP gets switched to the perimeter they always have the other one to back them up. This is NOT like it ever was in UTA in the playoffs. Gobert would get switched out and then UTA became a terrible defensive team with no rim protection. That will not happen with KP/Gobert. 2) The Mavs offense would NOT suffer with Gobert. He has been an offensive positive when he is the one guy who cannot spread the floor. THIS would be the case in DAL with KP spreading the floor as the PF on offense. If Gobert continues to grow as a rim runner next to Luka, then the Mavs offense could take a step forward (since DP was a loss in that regard, and the Mavs didn't have a crunch rim runner threat anymore). SUMMARY: I think the Mavs interior (point in paint) D improves with Gobert significantly. I think the perimeter D stays the same (being a weakness still). I think the O improves once there is chemistry and familiarity built. Therefore, I think the team takes a good, positive, and significant step forward with a Gobert acquisition. The single "issue" is that your perimeter D does not improve, but I would argue that there are VERY few moves where the perimeter D actually improves this offseason anyway. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 21?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - DanSchwartzgan - 11-06-2020 Final installment of the Hollinger series today. This time centers... More than MLE $17.2mm Whiteside (He won't get it as his reputation among GM's isn't good) $15.8mm Wood (If this were 21, he'd be in a better position to cash in. Charlotte may thwart Detroit's hope to stay under $10mm with tiny cap hold). $14.9mm Drummond (PO is $28mm and he might not get more than the MLE if he opts out if difficult market for centers) $13.1mm Poeltl ® (A good value at the MLE despite lack of shooting and "pretty blah post game"). $12.6mm Favors (Great rebounder. Knee issues may limit him to MLE $. Best role would probably be one of the best backup centers in the league). Mid Level Guys $9.8mm Olynyk (PO for $12.6mm which he probably takes to wait for better market in 21. Good 3rd big at the MLE). $8.8mm Harrell (Playoffs hurt him, but bigger issue is he's not a starter, but looking for starter $. Replacement level centers are easy to find). Less than MLE, more than Minimum $6.5mm Noel, $5.9mm Gasol, $5.7mm McGee, $5.6mm Kanter, $5.5mm Ibaka plus another 8 guys. He then lists Giles, Baynes, Henson, Thompson, Eubanks, Vonleh, Alexander, Hall, Hernangomez, Leonard, Muscala, Maker, Haslem, Mahinmi, Jones, Okafor and O'Quinn as minimum guys but notes all grade out as better than Replacement Level. That is part of what makes it so tough to get big money as a center. The baseline for the minimum is high. Therefore you have to be special to get big money at the position. RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - omahen - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 08:05 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Less than MLE, more than Minimum I would sign Hartenstein, if WCS leaves RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - DanSchwartzgan - 11-06-2020 Another interesting piece from The Athletic this morning. It asks the question whether hoarding space til 2021. It divides things into categories and Dallas is mentioned a lot. 1. Yes, if you have a credible shot at an elite FA. They define elite as GA, Davis and Lebron. Dallas is listed in a tier behind Miami and Toronto in this regard 2. Yes, if one of the second tier FA's really moves the needle for you Second tier is defined as Jrue, Gobert and Dipo. Dallas is mentioned as a team that would benefit from Jrue or Dipo joining the team 3. Yes, if it is a cover for saving money Thankfully Dallas isn't mentioned in this category. 4. Otherwise, NO While DJJ, Robinson III, Wood, Dragic and Melton (among others) won't shine as bright as some of the 2021 names, front offices that act pragmatically can set themselves up well by taking advantage of such an unusual offseason. https://theathletic.com/2179894/2020/11/06/nba-free-agency-salary-cap-analysis-is-2021really-worth-the-wait/ RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - MAVS-SLO - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 08:02 AM)Kammrath Wrote: RE: Gobert I completly agree with you, but i think Gobert is not a best player to solve this problems. Especially with a max contract. In my opinion best player to solve this problems is Myles Turner who could be also a better fit in our offense then Gobert. It's also Dallas native, fit a timeline with other Mavericks players to grow and it's also on a team friendly contract which will allow capspace in 2021 to sign a good player. Not a max player but, a player like Kelly Oubre, Gordon Hayward, Josh Richardson (player option) or Otto Porter Jr (around 20 mil per year). What do you think Indiana would want for Turner? They were some rumours that he also want out of Indiana, like Oladipo... RE: OFFSEASON: Mavs Trade & FA (Nov 20?) + Salary Chart | $109.1M cap - dirkfansince1998 - 11-06-2020 (11-06-2020, 08:02 AM)Kammrath Wrote: RE: Gobert Coaching > everything else when it comes to defense. Right now I fully expect any good defender that potentially ends up in Dallas to look worse than he did before. That said a KP/Gobert duo offers a lot of options. Especially when it comes to zone schemes. In the end there is a point where talent>fit. Gobert has been a top 20 player by nearly all impact metrics for multiple seasons. Most discussed wing/guard options (except for Holiday, healthy Oladipo, healthy Hayward) aren´t even in the top 50. |